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Tye's Sony Rant


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#201 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 08:57 PM

Your boss was happy with you spending at least a week extra working to correct a mistake you made during a shoot


A mistake we both made, the DIT and myself. He didn't realize the LUT for certain ISO needed to be different then the other ISO. So we just had to re-process those shots with a new LUT.

No my boss was not happy and he tried to go after my friend the DIT, but I told him not to and I just re-rendered those clips on a different box. I have three computers, so it didn't slow us down at all and in the long run, nobody knew but my boss.

The job was delivered on time, the client was happy and I learned a lot on that last shoot. I just don't like the workflow, XAVC 4k support for automatic sound syncing is not supported, I don't like the cameras complicated menu system, I don't like the highlight clipping issues (better on the F55), I don't like the restrictions in certain modes and I'm not in love with Sony's desire to always have a "white" image. If anything my rant hasn't changed and the mistakes on set didn't effect the finished product.
 

is also OK with you just walking into a shoot totally unprepared and the client didn't mind the extra time and expense spent in post (assuming you didn't just eat the cost and not charge the client) for a sub standard product? All of this on a shoot that was so low budget you couldn't afford a day extra rental to test the gear.


I was plenty prepared. I had used the FS7 and F5 on previous shoots, I knew that I needed to light flat, I knew I needed to protect my highlights more then a Red or Alexa. I knew I had a lot of speed with not much noise. I got the right lenses, the right accessories, I even hired out of my budget, (money that could have gone to me) a Sony specialist to INSURE there would be no problems on set. We were all set and again, the client was happy in the end, even if I felt the end result wasn't good.
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#202 David Hessel

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:07 PM

The amount of contradictions in this post is staggering.
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#203 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:22 PM

A mistake we both made, the DIT and myself. He didn't realize the LUT for certain ISO needed to be different then the other ISO. So we just had to re-process those shots with a new LUT.

I knew that I needed to light flat

I have no idea what this even means. There are no different LUTs for different ISOs. In Cine EI mode, the ISO is always 1250 on the F55. Your 'Sony specialist' should have known that.

 

And you don't have to light flat. I light the same way I do for Alexa, and for RED, and have never had a single problem on 4 features shooting with Sony cameras.


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#204 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:23 PM

What a ridiculous attitude to have. Again, how you can call yourself an educator when you yourself refuse to learn is beyond me.


I just don't retain anything from manuals, so reading them is a waste of time. I only retain things by doing them repeatedly, only then will it be memorized and not forgotten the moment I close the written page.

I think you missed my point. I'm constantly learning new things and these three Sony experiences were almost entirely learning. I can now officially form an opinion about these cameras, where prior I could not. One thing you have to understand is that I don't shoot because I have to, I shoot because I enjoy it and I want to get better. If I don't enjoy it, if I'm not learning, then it's no fun. On these Sony shoots, I found myself not having fun because every time I tried to push the imager, it fell apart. So I couldn't experiment with some new techniques or even use my standard tricks (few big lights with mirrors). I was forced to light pretty flat and boring, using diffusion on open doors and windows in the background and preventing reflections so there was no highlight clipping. These are the same tricks I leaned during the video days where you had no choice. So for me, because I couldn't explore, it just wasn't any fun.

BTW, my classes are hands-on learning, they never open a book. I give them reading recommendations, but most of the time their hands are on the lights, on the cameras and focused on making a great image, rather then reading about it.

You're complaining that modern cameras have too many 'worthless' controls, and at the same time moaning that CineEI mode locks you out of those controls.


Cine EL is a worthless control. Nobody else does it, they stuck with standard LOG style capture (with programable LUTS) because it isn't necessary to have multiple modes.

Root of the problem for me is that it's impossible to make a swiss army knife camera, you'll always loose somewhere. Just give me a camera with basic "film camera like" adjustments and I'm happy. Ohh wait, I have that camera and it shoots great images, never mind. :P
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#205 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:25 PM

Your 'Sony specialist' should have known that.


If you can't trust your help, who can you trust?
 

And you don't have to light flat.


I've seen your stuff, you light pretty even.
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#206 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:27 PM

The amount of contradictions in this post is staggering.


The amount of negativity in this thread makes me sick.
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#207 David Hessel

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:28 PM

You bring it on yourself.
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#208 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:37 PM

You bring it on yourself.


Why because I'm not allowed to dislike something based on my personal experiences?
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#209 David Hessel

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:40 PM

Of course you can, that is not the issue.

Edited by David Hessel, 08 August 2017 - 11:42 PM.

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#210 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:42 PM

I've seen your stuff, you light pretty even.

Plenty of contrast as far as I can tell, and straight out of the camera. F5 & F55.

 

Untitled-2.jpgUntitled-3.jpgUntitled-4.jpgUntitled-5.jpgUntitled-14.jpg


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#211 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:54 PM

Gentlemen; let's please try not to let this devolve into a level of personal one-up-man-ship and attack below the level of our forum.
 


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#212 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:56 PM

Gents, how about letting this thread die once and for all? It's already died once, and its resurrection isn't exactly bringing peace and prosperity to our lands.
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#213 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 12:25 AM

 its resurrection isn't exactly bringing peace and prosperity to our lands.

Agreed. It has outlived its usefulness. Hopefully, the take away is that proper preparation and research can prevent all kinds of problems later in the shoot, and that new technologies require a constantly evolving approach to make the most of them. Also, RTFM.


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#214 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 12:51 AM

Sorry last thing.. for Tylers education and learning .. not to bitch..

 

"Cine EL is a worthless control. Nobody else does it, they stuck with standard LOG style capture (with programable LUTS) because it isn't necessary to have multiple modes."

 

Its Cine EI  not L.. as in exposure index.. its the same as Arri EI.. and other cameras that have this function/operation..there is no such thing as "standard LOG capture ..".. also Slog3 is near as damn the same curve as LogC.. if you know that then you know Slog3..  the f55.f5.fs7 has "programmable" LUT,s also.. in camera.. tons of them.. . you really should look into it a bit.. even 10 mins reading.. for a film guy you should be able to get it.. as its very similar..


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#215 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 12:59 AM

In the spirit of peacemaking ... there's an interesting question regarding Sony and BM over on the BM page. Yes, bury this thread and move on.


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#216 David Peterson

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:39 AM

 

I have some B-cam material from India that we shot on the 4.6k alongside an F35 as our A-camera, and the Blackmagic doesn't really hold up as well as I'd hoped.

I'll post up a comparison once I get to having a proper play around with them in the grade.

I'd be keen to see that comparison!


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