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Lighting choices in a huge hangar


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#21 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 07:16 PM

Presuming the jets belong to your audio person.. maybe you could get them moved to however you want them..  


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#22 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 04:55 AM

I think $2000 is a joke for a music video.  How will you power the lighting? a 6K HMI draws 65A, a 5k Tungsten 40A.

 

We call that a "British Budget."

 

As a point of order, it's common for people to call any industrial discharge lighting "sodium," though most of it now, unless it's bright orange, will actually be ceramic metal halide. In many jurisdictions, mercury vapour is no longer used because it contains lots of mercury, which is highly toxic. Ceramic also contains mercury, but a lot less.

 

Ceramic lighting can have reasonably decent colour rendering. Arri sell the Studio Ceramic 250 which I suspect uses more or less the same technology as is in those lights, and I've used (clones of) ETC Source Four PARs which are or were commonly made to suit 150W ceramic bulbs.

 

As you've found, they're often deployed with magnetic ballasts that cause flicker at the mains frequency. That can be handled using the standard techniques discussed in this thread depending on your local mains frequency and desired frame rate. The electronic ballasts are very often flicker-free right up to high frame rates, which is great, although sometimes they may cause flicker at almost any frequency depending on the specifics of their design. That's rare, though.

 

One good way to determine what's going on is to find a combination of shutter speed and frame rate that maximises the visibility of flicker. If they're all flickering together, there's a very good chance they're on mains, so you can deal with it that way. If flicker is visible but they're all going at different times and rates, they're clearly being driven by rare, flickery electronic ballasts you are... what's the word... screwed. The only exception to this is if they're clearly going in a sequence of three steps, in which case, again, they're almost certainly being mains driven from three different phases. This is often done in places like indoor sports arenas where people need to see a fast-moving ball and it's a bad idea for it to be visible only as a series of intermittent streaks through the air.

 

P


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#23 Miguel Angel

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:49 AM

Even though you said that you were looking for a "unlit" and "natural" look I am going to suggest something completely different and maybe it will give you some ideas. 

 

You have some windows in your hangar so, open one of them if you can, place the band nearby and put a molebeam outside the window directed towards the band or to the ground, put some haze in the hangar if you can and there you go, you see the band, you show a little bit of the hangar, you have your two quasar in the background and you are pretty much lit for everything.

 

Alternatively, if your budget stretches a bit more you could open more windows and place more molebeams outside to create several shafts of light. 

 

This is coming from a person who really hates shafts of light :D but I'd say that it would be a nice solution for your problem and budget. 

 

Have a lovely day. 


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#24 Ryan Emanuel

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 01:00 PM

It also depends on your crew's capabilities.  You should check how much a scissor lift is to rent at least for the backlights, the hanger probably has one for $200-300. I know that the key grips I work with would be asking me where the backlight overhead was going and how many lights were going in it.  The space does seem perfect for an overhead softbox to backlight talent and light the whole space, but if your crew can't do that quickly its probably not worth it., but it would be dope.


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#25 Adam Worth

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 11:02 PM

Thanks thats good advice. I'm afraid the scissor lift is out of budget (cuz of the needed truck to bring it) and the hangar's scissor lift is being repaired. 

I did pitch the overhead softbox first thing. The band wanted a more natural look. Also yes my crew is kinda young and inexperienced. 

You've inspired me to put my 5K (or a source four?) way up high and directly behind the band for backlighting. maybe with diffusion. 

And the 1k as a key light. Possibly another 5k or source four as fill.  i'll also have quasars lighting them up on 2-3 sides too. 

still havent placed my lighting order so i'm very much appreciating your input! 

 

It also depends on your crew's capabilities.  You should check how much a scissor lift is to rent at least for the backlights, the hanger probably has one for $200-300. I know that the key grips I work with would be asking me where the backlight overhead was going and how many lights were going in it.  The space does seem perfect for an overhead softbox to backlight talent and light the whole space, but if your crew can't do that quickly its probably not worth it., but it would be dope.


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#26 Adam Worth

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 07:27 PM

Hello all - thanks again. Please critique my lighting diagram. I know this location has a lot of creative possibilities, but i need a straight forward setup that just highlights the performance. any more advice is much appreciated! I plan to open the hangar doors, put some ctb on the lights. Prob won't use as many 2' quasar LED tubes ('Q') than i drew here. let me know if u see any potential problems! 

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  • lighting layout.jpg

Edited by Adam Worth, 27 December 2018 - 07:28 PM.

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#27 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:27 AM

I don’t get what the band means by a more “natural look” and why they would think an overhead soft light would be unnatural.

What do they want really?

Why do you need a fill light when you’ve got a massive daylight door going through a 12x12 diffusion frame plus overhead Quasar tubes?

How is this backlight on a stand not going to be in the shot and why is this sort of 3-point lighting more natural than an overhead soft light would be?
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#28 Phil Connolly

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 02:03 PM

One of my favorite performance videos is "Judith" Directed by David Fincher

 

Both in the way its lit and the way the performance is shot and edited. Looking at it closely - it seems the light through the doors is the main light source. Maybe they bashed in a few small fixtures on the odd shot. But generally its the daylight blasting though the door and the courage to play it dark. Its difficult to tell it its all day light or if they have a massive HMI punching through the door to help. 

 

Might be a bit too "metal" for your group - but the look really works for the song in question and the coverage supports the performance. 

 

Really I would listen to the song a lot. The mood of the music should dictate the look. You are lucky to have a good flexible space and enough budget to be creative on the lighting front. What you do really needs to serve the music and the performance. So its impossible to really comment. I would light Radiohead in a different way to Slayer in the same space.  


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#29 Adam Worth

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 02:09 PM

thanks, this is helpful. a similar space to mine. & not too far off musically.

just wanted to play it safe on this one, have enough lights to cover my butt. An overhead soft box is out of budget, to begin with i cant afford the truck that would be required for the lift or very long ladder. So this video inspires some ideas. 

 

here is the track we're doing the video for 

 

 

One of my favorite performance videos is "Judith" Directed by David Fincher

 

Both in the way its lit and the way the performance is shot and edited. Looking at it closely - it seems the light through the doors is the main light source. Maybe they bashed in a few small fixtures on the odd shot. But generally its the daylight blasting though the door and the courage to play it dark. Its difficult to tell it its all day light or if they have a massive HMI punching through the door to help. 

 

Might be a bit too "metal" for your group - but the look really works for the song in question and the coverage supports the performance. 

 

Really I would listen to the song a lot. The mood of the music should dictate the look. You are lucky to have a good flexible space and enough budget to be creative on the lighting front. What you do really needs to serve the music and the performance. So its impossible to really comment. I would light Radiohead in a different way to Slayer in the same space.  


Edited by Adam Worth, 28 December 2018 - 02:12 PM.

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#30 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 07:46 PM

I'd probably side-light everything by rigging an HMI as high up each side column as an extension ladder would allow.  


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#31 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:55 PM

Or I’d turn everything 90 degrees and shoot in side light from the open hanger door.
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#32 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 04:26 AM

I'd call that an absolute gift of a location. The problem is that it begs such 80s glamour - big lights behind the aircraft and use lots of haze.

 


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#33 JD Hartman

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 09:38 AM

You can get your lights up higher (20+ feet) as David Mullen suggests using high-high overhead roller stands. Maybe use two 1.8k HMIs instead of the 1.2 and the 575.  Your hanger diagram indicates many 120VAC receptacles, they are tied into how many circuits of what amperage?


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