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Dirt Cheap 35mm cameras


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#1 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:55 AM

Can anyone think of a 35mm cine camera for under $350 USD, I can probably stretch to $1000 if I put off
getting it for a year.
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 07:55 AM

Can anyone think of a 35mm cine camera for under $350 USD, I can probably stretch to $1000 if I put off
getting it for a year.


Interestiog question.
You need camera for collection or for real film shooting ?

If you need camera for real film shooting, how many film you can buy, if you have $350 for cine camera ? 4..8 minutes of film ?
The 35 mm film shooting not cheap business. You will need pay money for film, for processing service
of film, postroduction, telecine service.

You can buy russian Konvas-1 with very low price, but, this can be set of parts, and you will need pay additional money for repair and service of this camera.
I think, $1000..1500 more real price for cheap 35 mm camera with condition " ready for shooting ".
This can be AKS-1 or Konvas-1.
If you real interesting, i can tell you detailed about real cases.
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#3 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 08:10 AM

On second thoughts I'l just leave it for 20 years or so.
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#4 Herb Montes

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:30 AM

On second thoughts I'l just leave it for 20 years or so.


For that price you can get an old DeVry. The cheapest I got a fully functional 35mm movie camera for was $500.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:43 AM

If you can only afford $350 for a 35mm camera, how are you going to afford to spend the hundreds of dollars to run film through it and get it processed and transferred and/or printed -- every time you use it?
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#6 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 01:26 PM

Oh that's an easy one David...you buy your own film manufacturing company, your own lab, and your own transfer house. Then sell them at the end of your shoot and get your money back :)

R,
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#7 Matt Pacini

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 05:08 PM

Now THAT was funny!

This guy thinks he's going to be able to get into 35mm motion picture photography for $350.
Boy, is he in for the shock of his life. I figure he'll be shooting DV within 2 months, what do you think?

MP
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#8 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:10 PM

Sorry for insulting you guys, I'm only 15 you see.
I thought that there was some dirt cheap Russian
35mm or something, and that I could buy short ends,
and process them at home, I've heard of process at home
films for 16mm.
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#9 Kevin Masuda

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:27 PM

Sorry for insulting you guys, I'm only 15 you see.
I thought that there was some dirt cheap Russian
35mm or something, and that I could buy short ends,
and process them at home, I've heard of process at home
films for 16mm.



How are you going to process 35mm motion picture film at home?

Kev
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#10 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:51 PM

16mm has some cheap processing process that can be done at home, according to some other guy.

God, that sarcasm from Richard Boddington and Matt Pacini really is hurtful, this forum is officially closed, Goodbye!

Edited by Matthew Buick, 30 June 2006 - 06:55 PM.

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#11 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:00 PM

"God, that sarcasm from Richard Boddington and Matt Pacini really is hurtful, this forum is officially closed, Goodbye!"

Good grief don't be such a friggin' cry baby. If you're going to work in film you'll need skin thicker than whale blubber.

In any event my post was more about carrying on a discussion I had with David Mullen about buying ones own camera. I was making fun of my own comments from that past thread, hence the smiley face.

Come back any time we'll be happy to advise you, wise ass comments included free of charge :)

R,
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#12 Herb Montes

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:18 PM

Sorry for insulting you guys, I'm only 15 you see.
I thought that there was some dirt cheap Russian
35mm or something, and that I could buy short ends,
and process them at home, I've heard of process at home
films for 16mm.


I did buy a Konvas 35mm camera for only $500. It came with two lenses and no motor, just a handcrank. It has a 200 foot magazine. I was going to adapt an animation motor to it. One of other 35mm cameras I have has a DeVry mechanism in it and can take 100 foot loads.

I recently purchased a bunch of 35mm short ends for around 5 to 10 cents per foot of color negative. They are around 200 foot lengths. Because I'm an animator I don't need long film runs. Though the largest capacity 35mm camera I have is a Russian made Rodina which holds 400 feet. And for around $1,400 it was a good buy for pin-registration.

You can process 35mm at home if you can find the Russian made Lomo spiral tank. They made one that could take 100 foot loads. There is also the Arkay/G3 rewind tank that can process 100 feet of 35mm and 16mm but it's not as easy to use. I did see a couple of Arkay tanks at a camera show for around $40 each. Lomo tanks are a bit harder to find but I have seen them on eBay.

But if you just want to get started in filmmaking then 16mm may be a better start for you.

Edited by Herb Montes, 30 June 2006 - 09:19 PM.

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#13 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:07 PM

Kid- er,..Mr. Buick-

Wanting to be a filmmaker is great! But you need to learn ALOT before you start shooting 35. It's not even really about money......not at your stated age. If I ran into a 15 year old with a nice 35mm camera I'd kick his ass, then I'd find his parents and kick both mom and dads asses at the same time. Maybe I wouldn't steal the camera.... <_<

:D All kidding aside, you really need to learn right now. Buy books and read,read,read,read,read,read. You can also pick up a crappy VHS-C camcorder for around $25 at a garage sale, yes you can still find tape for it.
Actually any cheap, old camcorder will do just fine as a capturing device for you. Maybe when you're at the next stage, lets say end of high school, you schould purchase a nice super8 to make some short-films with a dedicated group of friends.

That being said, buck up. Take your hits and lick your wounds. If you think these guys are "mean" or "hurtful" you will never even get out of high school.

-Jonnie
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#14 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:52 PM

You just need to shoot, at this stage in your life, with a camera, video or film, that is inexpensive to shoot with, and has enough manual controls to allow you to learn the basics of exposure, focusing, etc. I learned by shooting Super-8 -- in fact, that's all I shot between the ages of 14 to 25! By that point, jumping up to 16mm was easy.... I don't expect you to take that long, of course.

These days, I'd probably shoot both DV and Super-8 to learn on. Shoot Super-8 reversal and project the original on a Super-8 projector -- since you can't really fix your exposure mistakes, it will teach you a lot. Shoot DV and learn to edit on your home computer. Learn to light either.

Once you've made all of your basic mistakes, you can shoot 16mm and 35mm without as much risk of screwing it up, which gets expensive.

Remember, making mistakes is not only unavoidable, it's vital if you are to advance.
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#15 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:58 PM

You know....maybe if you're really into the idea of shooting film but want to start simple and cheap (but think of it as "affordable", not "cheap!") you should get a Bolex. Those are fun and pretty easy to use, but you can also do a lot with them. Granted it's not 35 but screw it, you don't want to pay for 35 at this stage in the game anyway! A friend of mine gave me some very good advice...only shoot film if you can afford it.
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#16 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 05:59 AM

Sorry for insulting you guys, I'm only 15 you see.
I thought that there was some dirt cheap Russian
35mm or something, and that I could buy short ends,
and process them at home, I've heard of process at home
films for 16mm.


Not worry, all OK, and you have very good dream.
But, you need check all sides of this and financial side too.
A some digitals for financial calculations.

You can buy russian cheap 35 mm cine camera like Konvas-1, or with mechanical spring - AKS-1.
This is cameras have price $350..550, but, this is old cameras and can have not good condition for real shooting. You will need pay $500..600 for service and repair of this cameras.
You will need buy addiional battery, charger ( $200..300 ).
Ok, You have 35 mm cine cameras and ready for shooting.

You not wish use professional film processing service, you wish processing a 35 mm film at home.
Yes, this real and possible. I can confirm this because i have experience do this.
But, you need footages ready for show by cine projector.
The telecine transfer and computer post production high price service and this service not for you.
That's why, you choice of processing at home on spiral tanks.
You can use S8/16 x 50 ft tank 65..100 euros / 1 pcs ( can processing one roll of 35 mm film x 15 m )
or you can use 16/35x100 PRO tank 250..300 Euros / 1 pcs, super rare device ( can processing 35 mm x 30 m of film )
You will need glass lab ware, processing device, film dryer, all on $300..400.

You can use :
Kodak 5285 color reversal film, the short ends of this film can have price $0.5..0.8 / 1 m
You will need 30 m of film for every second of film.
For procesisng, you need E-6 5 L set chemistry. I use tetenal 3 batch E-6 set, $65 / set.
If you need, i can tell you , how many films can processing 5 L set.
And you will have color film, ready for show by cine projector.

The oher way, use B&W films, but, we have not 35 mm B&W reversal film, we can use
35 mm B&W negative film with special technology of reversal processing.
This is possible.

The print of positive copy from negative film complex procedure and need special film printer.
Orwo film can be processing with reversal technoligy and other films too.
35 mm B&W negative have not low price too, this can be $0.5..1.2 / 1 m.
The set chemistry for processing B&W reversal film availabel for sell too, 15 Euros /1 set.
1 L of chemistry can processing 30 m, of 35 mm film.

You can see.
This is real idea, but, not cheap and need money.

If you have not many money, you can shoot on 16 mm or Super 8.
16 mm B&W reversal films available for sell and you can processing of this film at home.
That's why, you can begin of our film making from 16 mm.
Super 8 real way too. Super 8 color reversal film can be processing on spiral tanks at home.
You can take FOMA DS8, D8 B&W reversal films.
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#17 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 06:09 AM

I did buy a Konvas 35mm camera for only $500. It came with two lenses and no motor, just a handcrank. It has a 200 foot magazine. I was going to adapt an animation motor to it. One of other 35mm cameras I have has a DeVry mechanism in it and can take 100 foot loads.

I have is a Russian made Rodina which holds 400 feet. And for around $1,400 it was a good buy for pin-registration.


A some information.
Konvas camera not good for stop motion ( animation) shooting.
the animation shooting need high precision position of every frame. Konvas have one transport in only.
Yes, Konvas can be use for stop motion shooting, but, you need check stabiliy of frame position.

Rodina, very good camera, have high precision transport mechanism with pin -registration, but.. very big " BUT, Rodina have mechanism compatible with KS perforsation only ( russian standard of all 35 mm films ).
And you can not use Rodina with Kodak negative film without modification of pins of mechanism.
The modificaton from KS on B&H perforation have high price.

The very good ide of use for shop motion 35 mm russian cine cameras PSK-29, RFK-5, KSK-1.
But, will need modify of pins of mechanism too.

Other idea, to use Kodak positive film with KS perforation. This is low speed film.
You can exposing film of long time or use photo flash. But, you not need modify Rodina camera.
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#18 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:05 AM

I have Tonsilitis right now, so I'm not exactly up to that sarcasm from Boddington and Pacini.
Thanks for the tips, I do have a camera, a Sony DCR IP220 PAL, I was just thinking of the future,
( can never wait till the right time with cameras n stuff, has to be now ) so do you think the IP220
is good enough or is it a bit of a lemon.
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#19 Herb Montes

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 09:11 AM

I have Tonsilitis right now, so I'm not exactly up to that sarcasm from Boddington and Pacini.
Thanks for the tips, I do have a camera, a Sony DCR IP220 PAL, I was just thinking of the future,
( can never wait till the right time with cameras n stuff, has to be now ) so do you think the IP220
is good enough or is it a bit of a lemon.


I'm not familair with that video camera but you can learn scene composition and editing with one. But there is nothing like the thrill of shooting on film and seeing it projected. I started in regular 8mm a long time ago and the first films I made were simple animations. As I grew confident in making short films I moved up to Super 8mm and eventually 16mm. When it comes to being able to produce animation, special effects and such the Bolex will give you more "bang for the buck". They are still plentiful and on eBay a decent reflex model will run anywhere from $500 to $1,500. And 16mm, specifically Super 16, has been used to make feature films after being blown-up to 35mm. You can learn by lurking on this forum and asking questions. But there is nothing like learning by picking up a movie camera and shooting film.

Olex is correct in Russian pin registered cameras need to be modified to use the B&H perforated filmstock used in movie cameras. When I got my Rodina I had the pins modified but it was part of the purchase. When you make a decision to spend a lot of money on a camera it's always good to get customer feedback on a seller. Olex is one I would trust along with Rafael whom I bought my Rodina from.
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#20 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 01:51 PM

So what you're basically saying is: Shoot Film, is processing for 16mm, much more expensive than super 8,
thats the main thing putting me off 16mm.
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