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Dirt Cheap 35mm cameras


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#21 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 02:18 PM

[quote] If I ran into a 15 year old with a nice 35mm camera I'd kick his ass [quote]

Kick my ass would you ?

Would you kick my ass if I was making a holiday film on VistaVision

My life Ambitions: Look stupid on an Internet forum. (Done)

Spill milk down my favourite shirt. (Just done that)

Make Holiday films on VistaVision. (Hmm, a bit risky perhaps)
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#22 Herb Montes

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 06:23 PM

So what you're basically saying is: Shoot Film, is processing for 16mm, much more expensive than super 8,
thats the main thing putting me off 16mm.


The area of 16mm film is more than Super 8mm so you would use more chemicals if that is what you're asking. When it come to lab services costs can be a bit more.

It does also depends on what you want to do on film. Any effort in filmmaking is going to cost money in equipment and material.
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#23 Scott Bullock

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 06:38 PM

That's a pretty good sense of humor you've got there, Mr. Buick!

Personally speaking, I don't care how old you are, if you can afford to shoot on 35mm then do it. If you have the coin to do it, go for it, but you will run into problems. First of all, I can't help but think that any 35mm camera that can purchased for the amount you mentioned is going to be an absolute piece of crap, but there are always exceptions to any rule. Secondly, if you decide to rent the gear, not only are you going to spend more than what you've described, but most rental houses simply aren't going to rent their equipment to someone so young. On the upside, if you can find an AC, camera operator, or DP who's willing to help you out and you can afford it, by all means shoot all the 35mm film that you want. I support young filmmakers because there were filmmakers who supported me when I was young. If you are willing to keep your ears open and your mouth shut, I'd imagine that there are plenty of willing mentors out there.

Conversely, if you don't have the money to shoot 35mm as you describe, then take David Mullen's advice and acquire your skills on video or Super-8. I spent 10 years of my life shooting with a Nikon R10 and, regardless of certain differences, the progression to 16mm and 35mm was a fairly easy one. Don Coscarelli (look him up on IMDB.com) had three 35mm features under his belt before he'd turned 25, one of which is a horror cult classic that made $17 million in its initial theatrical run, so it definitely can be done. Alexander Aja is another very talented filmmaker in his mid-20s with two excellent feature films to his name. The sky is the limit, Matthew, don't ever let anyone in "the business" tell you otherwise. Good luck.
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#24 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:22 PM

Thank You for that very professional reply Scott B

Matt Buick
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#25 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 12:15 AM

Good humor, good humor! We need more of that on this site :D
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#26 Matthew Buick

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:14 AM

VistaVision rocks, is there anyone else out there who uses this extremly compact format for their holiday films ?

Edited by Matthew Buick, 03 July 2006 - 06:15 AM.

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#27 Robert Hughes

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:43 AM

Matt, if you're really hot to try some 35mm shooting you can do it, either with your own gear or by renting a camera package.

My opinion is: the cheapest way to shoot 35mm is to buy a Bell & Howell Eyemo off eBay, and process the film at home. Eyemos sell for about $500 and are in various states of disrepair, often having spent a part of their lives as crash cameras. But they are almost always repairable to functioning status.

If you want to work with a rental house they'll let you get a camera package. But you'll need to get your dad or some adult to sign off on the insurance forms. And 35mm packages are not camcorders, there's a lot more going on in terms of setup; you will probably want to hire an (adult) Camera Assistant to work with you. You'll be talking hundreds to thousands of dollars a day going this route.

Film stock and processing is going to be very expensive, no easy way around it. A 100' daylight spool of 35mm film lasts about a minute at 24fps, so you'll want to plan your shots very carefully - no video style run-on shots here. You can process 35mm b&w negative at home with a minimum of equipment and supplies, but you'll probably need a "rewind" processor like a Morse G3, or just toss the film in a bucket and slosh it around in the developer. If you choose the latter, the film will get scratched & nicked for that old-timey distressed look, which can be handy sometimes,

But you'd probably be better off experimenting in 16mm or Super 8; it's cheaper, the equipment is easier to handle, and good 16mm looks amazingly good. Even Super 8 has its charm.
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#28 Matthew Buick

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:55 AM

I have already considerd Super 8, but it's a little bit 'old movie' look for me, I'm looking for a cheap ARRI 16S now.
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#29 Sasuke

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:48 PM

I have already considerd Super 8, but it's a little bit 'old movie' look for me, I'm looking for a cheap ARRI 16S now.



Matt,

That "old Movie" look you are referring to is the look of REVERSAL film. Go and shoot
some KODAK VISION2 200T in Super 8 . It will blow you away. I will post an example later to
show you how it can look SHARP and NEW. Now, don't get me wrong the old look is nice too.
In time, I think you'll learn to appreciate that "OLD" look. Get on EBAY , look up the
CANON 814 or CANON 814E. GET THAT CAMERA. Good Lens. Make good looking images. Shoot
some Super 8 negative, YOU WILL LIKE IT. :)
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#30 Matthew Buick

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 03:34 PM

Matt,

That "old Movie" look you are referring to is the look of REVERSAL film. Go and shoot
some KODAK VISION2 200T in Super 8 . It will blow you away. I will post an example later to
show you how it can look SHARP and NEW. Now, don't get me wrong the old look is nice too.
In time, I think you'll learn to appreciate that "OLD" look. Get on EBAY , look up the
CANON 814 or CANON 814E. GET THAT CAMERA. Good Lens. Make good looking images. Shoot
some Super 8 negative, YOU WILL LIKE IT. :)


Wow thanks.


P.S I have decided that VistaVision holiday films are not for me, so I'm using three strip Technicolor instead.

Edited by Matthew Buick, 03 July 2006 - 03:38 PM.

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#31 Robert Hughes

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:22 PM

Wanna see a nice little short made in Super 8 with a Canon 814 AZ? Try Zensteve's "Trunk Fiction" on indietalk.com:

http://www.indietalk...read.php?t=6406

Good enough for the Internet, and better image than most Super 8's I've seen. And he's got (non) sync dialog to boot. Interesting forum thread accompanying the short for anyone interested.
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#32 Matthew Buick

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 03:35 PM

HEY, who wants some free money?
I do, I just have to find some.
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#33 Sasuke

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 08:10 AM

Wow thanks.
P.S I have decided that VistaVision holiday films are not for me, so I'm using three strip Technicolor instead.



Matt,

I've posted a link to a site that has a still of Kodak 5274 200t Negative film that I shot on
Super 8, about 3 years ago. I posted it under the SUPER 8 only section out of respect for
the forum elders.
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#34 Matthew Buick

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:51 PM

Ah, those were the days, I've learnt so much now that I didn't think I'd posted that until I looked at the name on the post.

Let's have another cool discussion here. :lol:
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#35 GeorgeSelinsky

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 09:02 PM

The main reason you'd shoot 35mm right now is for historical reasons, by the time you get enough money and a script together to shoot a film, 35mm film may be history!

Of course, 35mm is cool. The first time you get your rushes back you're all excited about seeing such crispy images, all filmed by YOU. It's sorta like the forbidden fruit, the format of the pro's. But then you quickly get over that buzz, and then it's just business as usual.

If your hands itch, like mine did once, go get some short ends and see if you can borrow a 35mm camera for a day or rent one over a weekend. You're still going to be stuck for lab minimums, we're talking $70 per item (negative processing is an "item", film dailies is another "item", video transfer another "item"). If you get a print done and want to see it in all its on screen glory, a guy at the lab will run it on a projector for you once or twice.

Best bet if you really want the film look is to stick to 16mm right now. You can get the equipment cheaper, it still looks VERY GOOD, and if you want to project the film 16mm projectors are a very cheap commodity. If you're so into the 35mm look, shoot on the 100 asa or 50 asa color negative stocks, that'll give you a very close approximation (and it'll teach you to light). If you want to have some fun shoot the Plus X reversal B&W, that's a close match to 35mm B&W film (even though you need a LOT of light).

Most important of all, it matters WHAT you're putting on film, not the tool you're using :)
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#36 Riku Naskali

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:24 PM

Wel..I could argue that you can make a film for $1000 if it's a really short one and you know what you are doing ;)

Of course it all depends what your film requires and whether you are going to pay people or get slaves...

I considered buying a Konvas while I was studying in Toronto but my shoot fell apart because of other reasons.. I've seen Konvases go for about 500 bucks on ebay by a guy that got only praise on konvas mailing list.

And I'm not even counting the money you get back when/if you sell the camera after the production ;)
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#37 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 02:42 AM

My first 35mm motion picture camera was a reostate motored Konvas 1m with 3 mags, 5 lenses and and a bunch of accessories including a 2 power cords, 2 different style hand cranks and a handle for hand held work. The camera was and is in almost mint condition without any visable signs of wear at all even on the paint. It cost $350.00 + shipping. Don't let anyone EVER tell you you can't do something if you really want it but never forget you better be prepared to pay the price to make your dreams happen and that usually means a lot of sacrifice, diappointment and pain. B)
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#38 Matthew Buick

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 03:47 PM

I'm not actually interested in shooting 35mm right now, I'm shooting my first film in Super 8 in about 8 weeks.

However, if anyone has any 5247 in 35mm please inform me.
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#39 Mat Fleming

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:38 AM

Or you can use a half-frame camera and shoot 3 seconds of film (72 frames) on a normal 36 exposure film!
There are registration issues, and narrative filmmaking, as we know it, is pretty much impossible, but it's still a rush to see it projected. And there are loads of filmstocks to choose from at your local photography store.

Mat
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#40 Hal Smith

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 10:22 AM

My first 35mm motion picture camera was a reostate motored Konvas 1m with 3 mags, 5 lenses and and a bunch of accessories including a 2 power cords, 2 different style hand cranks and a handle for hand held work.

I got to the point where I could shoot film with my Arri 2B (ex-Doggiecam that was upgraded with 2C internal mechanism, 1.85 GG, etc.) with a total investment of $1500. Camera, 200 foot mag, wild motor, motorcycle battery, 40mm Cooke SPII lens, and an old Miller Professional head on wood sticks I've had for years. I've spent a lot more since but at $1500 I was shooting pretty good looking 35mm.
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