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Moviecam SL "MOV" error


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#21 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 12:11 AM

You might try giving Hand Held Films in NY a ring. They were / maybe still are a Moviecam house and their techs are very skilled folks. 


Thanks Kenny, I will keep them in mind. So far, I have tried calling Panavision Woodland Hills and Keslow about the possibility of servicing my camera or any leads in finding an independent technician. Keslow was very nice but said they could not work on a non-consignment camera for liability reasons. Panavision never called me back. Not unexpected, but a bummer nonetheless. Marty Oppenheimer suggested Andree Martin at Clairmont, so that is who I will try next.
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#22 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 12:13 AM

So the first thing to check is that the movement block is fully home. The movement might be closed enough to trigger the switch, but not latched closed, so that it opens again when you try to run. (There is also a rear buckle switch that needs to be closed as well as the upper and lower sprocket guides, though from memory the camera wouldn't turn over at all if those micro-switches aren't closed. I don't remember if they elicit the same MOV error display.) 
 
If you're game and want to check further, removing the movement is fairly easy, 2 screws plus one in the lever, but be very careful to align both the movement and lever positions with their mating components when you reseat it. If the screws feel spongy as you tighten them, stop and reseat the movement rather than keep tightening. 


Excellent, thank you Dom! You are always the hero. Will check the wiring that you mentioned as well.
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#23 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 03:26 AM

If I recall, with the movement not at home position and the camera trying to run, the display simply blinks. It acts as if the film has tripped one of the loop sensors.

Tho, it would make the most sense something simple like that could be the problem.
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#24 Giray Izcan

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 09:16 AM

Try Visual Products as well. Ask for Peter. He is great.
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#25 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 01:35 PM

If I recall, with the movement not at home position and the camera trying to run, the display simply blinks. It acts as if the film has tripped one of the loop sensors.

Tho, it would make the most sense something simple like that could be the problem.


Does it make sense though, given that I removed the mag and re-threaded the movement, not just once but twice? And then tried to run the camera without film? I closed the movement every time, so at least one of those the times should have been correct, no?
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#26 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 01:36 PM

Try Visual Products as well. Ask for Peter. He is great.


Good call Giray, thanks!
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#27 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 04:45 PM

Dom, does the SL actually have a rear buckle switch? The manual seems to suggest so, but I can only see the upper one.
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#28 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:26 PM

Does it make sense though, given that I removed the mag and re-threaded the movement, not just once but twice? And then tried to run the camera without film? I closed the movement every time, so at least one of those the times should have been correct, no?


No it doesn't make sense, but it's worth checking.

I found the safety switches to be kind of finicky, especially the one behind the sprockets that's suppose to be tripped when the film rolls out. That one can get stuck in an odd place very easily, simply due to age. It may seem centered, but the switch isn't clicked.
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#29 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 08:08 PM

OK, cracked out an SL, ah the smell of film cameras!

 

So I was wrong about the MOV error relating to the movement not being closed. As Tyler said, when the movement is open, or any of the buckle switches are triggered, or the upper and lower sprocket guides are open, the display blinks and reads "B".

 

The SL has 2 buckle switches at the top and bottom of the loop, and one at the back on the plate in the middle of the mag port, all of which are spring loaded, so you don't have to reset them. I was confusing it with the Compact which has a rear buckle switch that needs to be reset if it trips.

 

I'll need to dig out my service notes and see if I can find out what the MOV error means. Definitely something to do with the movement, but I can't remember what exactly. If Aaron or someone else has the Super America manual perhaps they can pass on what it says about it.

 

Satsuki, your issue is different, you got a MOT error display which relates to the motor and electronics. My first thought was that the connector cable could be faulty, since you've had that error come up before if I remember right?

 

Sorry for the misinformation earlier in the thread, it's been some years since I worked on these cameras. 35mm film shooting is pretty much dead and dusted down here unfortunately.


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#30 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 09:16 PM

Sweet, thanks for the follow up Dom! I'll check out the rear buckle switch when I get home. I have a friend who is quite handy with wiring and electronics, so might be he would be the right person to check for faulty wiring.
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#31 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:43 PM

Well, looks like my issue is solved. I tried removing the side panel and reseating all the electrical connectors again, and the camera now runs properly! So Dom was right, in my case it was an electrical issue.
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#32 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:59 PM

Nice! I like the simple solutions!
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#33 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:00 AM

Nice! Now keep us posted on your DIY video tap :)
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#34 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 01:28 PM

Looks like I'm sending my cameras to Jorge Diaz Amador at Cinematechnic in LA next week: http://www.cinematechnic.com/

I'll ask him if he has any thoughts on the HD tap.
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#35 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 06:34 PM

Just got my SL back from service in LA, so I thought I would write an update on the work done.

My camera technician Jorge replaced the loose electrical connector inside the side panel and lubricated the pins with a fluid that he says should solve any conductivity issues if the connector gets loose again.

He mentioned that the stainless steel 2.5mm body screws which I replaced the originals with will be more prone to head stripping, which they have already begun to do. He recommended that I switch from a ball-tip hex tool to straight-tip and go back to alloy screws, adding a little dab of oil on the heads to resist corrosion.

All the mag motors were tested for proper tension with a gauge. The 400' mags were perfect. The 1000' mag motors were not up to spec and were re-calibrated. Previously, they would not take up properly when running in reverse - that is fixed now.

The PL mount and ground glass focus were collimated and checked. Due to the SL's pressure plate design, apparently the FFD should be set to 52.00mm, not 51.98mm like most Arri cameras. The ground glass focus was apparently not easy to check as it sits at a slight angle, unlike Arri cameras. Jorge says he used some exotic collimator lenses to do the job.

The movement was not lubricated, as he has not yet found the right documentation for that. 'First, do no harm' being the operating motto. Dom, if you have any info on this it would be much appreciated. We have split a bottle of Arri chronosynth oil for our Arri cameras, doubtful if that can be used on Moviecam cameras.

The viewfinder was disassembled and lubricated to remove a bump in the diopter adjustment ring. Before, turning the diopter resulted in the image moving slightly due to some optics shifting around. It is very smooth now.

Jorge was not able to adjust the viewfinder to see a bit more of the S35 ground glass. Unfortunately, this appears to be a limitation of the SL viewfinding system. The camera left frame line is just visible but there is no look-around. When the PL mount is centered for Academy 35 and a N35 ground glass is used, the frame lines are also centered and look-around is available on both sides.

Power draw was checked with a power supply, 0.8A running 24fps (19.2w @ 24v) without mag or film. The B&W tap added about 0.3A. The camera should pull 2.5A with 400' of film at 24fps, according to the manual. The internal fuse is 6.3A. That leaves 3.8A for accessories, just enough for a Preston MDR3 and a TVLogic 5.6 (or a Teradek Bolt Pro 300). If you use the TVL with it's own batteries, that frees up 1A.

We also discussed the possibility of updating the video tap to HD. I think it is very possible to do for my camera, as the existing B&W tap uses a machine vision board camera. There are several HD-SDI board cameras available which could possibly fit into the existing housing with minimal work - the trick will be to match the sensor size to the existing camera so the lens and field-of-view are not affected.

On the plus side, the board cameras all seem to be fairly standardized in terms of size and connector placement. They would only really need hot and ground wires soldered in, and an ultra-thin jumper SDI cable to move the BNC connector to a convenient place. To have full control over the camera menus, the existing tap housing might need to be milled out and a rubber gasket added to accommodate the small plastic control pad that comes with the camera. But it might also be possible to just set the camera menus once and then hide the control pad inside the housing, avoiding any machining.

There are also new(er) high resolution lenses available in C or CS mount which would offer a better image, but it would be tricky to make them fit into the existing housing and maintain manual iris control through the housing, keep the same field-of-view, stay within minimum focus, and avoid too much distortion.

Ideally, a manual iris, macro prime lens with low distortion would be best. I have a few in mind, but it all depends on whether the original tap camera has a 1/2" or 1/3" sensor. All the modern HD-SDI machine vision cameras are 1/3", most of the old tap cameras were 1/2". Most of the modern C/CS mount lenses cover 1/2" but do not have macro. I've only found one with an MOD of 4" which I'm hoping is close enough.

Anyway, it seems like Jorge will need to acquire more workspace before he can start on a project like this. But I made him aware that there is a potential market for these HD taps, if they can be made affordably. I know that he will be making them first for the medical 2C cameras which do not have optical viewfinders. Probably with a camera that already has a housing, rather than a plain board camera like I am planning on using.

I would recommend emailing him if you are interested in buying one - the more orders he gets, the cheaper they will be: http://cinematechnic...t-cinematechnic.
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#36 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 09:14 PM

Hi Satsuki,

 

Good to hear you've got Jorge on the case, he's a top notch technician from all I've read of his online postings and his very informative website.

 

The oil for Moviecam movements is the same as the one for Arricam movements, should be available from Arri.

 

Good luck with the tap!


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#37 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:38 PM

Thanks Dom!

Would you happen to know if the Arricam/Moviecam oil is the same as the Arriflex 2C/3/435/235 oil? Apparently, it took a lot of effort for Jorge to even get a tiny bottle of the latter from Arri, and they know him personally. I doubt I'd get anywhere with such a request.
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#38 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 11:37 PM

I'm pretty sure the Arricam oil is different to the Chronosynth 1/8 used in those cameras, or PDB 38 which was another Arri oil. I've just asked the senior tech at Arri Australia about it, will let you know when I get an answer.


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#39 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 01:53 AM

Appreciate it, thank you!
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#40 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 07:25 PM

Hi Satsuki,

 

I managed to source some more Arricam oil since my syringe was getting very low. It's definitely different to Chronosynth 1/8 which is golden in colour and viscous, whereas Arricam oil is clear and very light. Also different to PDB 38 which is light but more yellow. There is no manufacturer's name or identifying label other than "Arricam Oil".

 

If Jorge really can't source any from his Arri contacts, get him to shoot me a message via my cinetinker email and I'll send him some.


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