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Sony FS5 II is Garbage


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#41 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:01 PM

 

This might be a case of user error but there's highlights clipping everywhere and about a minute and a half in, when they walk into the woods, the image falls apart. The trees turn to mud, and later on, the grass is patchy and the plaid white shirt starts glowing.

 

I think some of this could have been solved by using a Canon.

The second clip has obviously been fairly aggressively graded. The whole clip is somewhat over chroma'd and it's high in contrast as well, which accounts for the clipped highlights.

 

Images from any camera, including Canon, will fall apart if you push them far enough.


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#42 Matt Thomas

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:25 PM

 

I watched that second video you posted, didn't watch much of the first one because the 1080p plus excessive added grain would further separate me from experiencing the camera.

 

 

That's kinda my whole point. It's not about what's straight out of the camera it's about what the camera enables you to do. 

 

It's why Soderbergh can shoot a feature on an iPhone. You're going to tell me that because it's overly processed that discounts the tool used to tell the story? 


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#43 Samuel Berger

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:40 PM

 

That's kinda my whole point. It's not about what's straight out of the camera it's about what the camera enables you to do. 

 

It's why Soderbergh can shoot a feature on an iPhone. You're going to tell me that because it's overly processed that discounts the tool used to tell the story? 

 

What, an iPhone? No, an iPhone is a weird thing to use for a feature. Nothing to do with overprocessing, it's a gimmicky thing. Like the PXL2000.

 

Yeah. Exactly like the PXL2000 now that I think about it. Can make phone calls with it, though. Couldn't call anybody on the PXL2000. Couldn't...order pizza. Or prank call the bar. I never prank called the bar. It's illegal.


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#44 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:27 PM

Ive realized my Bentley is garbage .. after a heavy night, I crashed it into parked police car on Santa Monica Blvd..now the car doesn't work .. WTF.. !  and I have a court date.. that car is total crap..


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#45 Samuel Berger

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:36 PM

Ive realized my Bentley is garbage ..

 

Should've gone with Canon.


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#46 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:30 AM

 

Should've gone with Canon.

 

 

Didnt like the colors ..


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#47 Samuel Berger

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:52 AM

One of the key complaints is that the FS5Mk2 is an FS5 with a firmware update. Others say that it will bring you to tears. Some FS5 owners are thinking of using black nail polish on the ND knob to pass it off as an FS5Mk2 to clients.

 

One FS5 owner sobbed that if you currently have the raw firmware upgrade and are shooting 12-bit raw out via SDI to an external recorder there is absolutely zero point to upgrade. Especially considering the recent addition of Apple Pro-Res Raw which is now 12-bit raw instead of 10-bit standard pro-res and should offer even more latitude in post production which asides from all the crying will totally outperform any baked in LUT Sony can give a sobbing cinematographer from their Venice color science.

 

Ironically the A7 III appears to have better autofocus than most Sony cinema cameras. This is why the Canon is superior, because they made people, who never thought they'd use AF, pay a premium for that feature. Atomos just released a Ninja V, too, so if you pair that with the A7 III why would you need a lacrimogenous FS series? The A7 III has IBIS too...hmmm....

 

There seems to be minimal hardware difference in the FS5Mk2. I guess it was an attempt to use up unsold FS5 parts.  I haven't used this sorrowful camera but I hope it doesn't feel like a cheap piece of plastic like Panasonic's schizophrenic EVA1.

 

If you can read through all the crying, "as idiotic as it sounds, it would almost seem that the mkii was just being used to market Sony's even newer and refined color science of Venice."


Edited by Samuel Berger, 25 April 2018 - 12:56 AM.

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#48 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 05:48 AM

It just is what it is.. its a very cheap s35mm camera .. that is for sure easier to be dealing with than a DSLR.. its just a step up from that.. it has the very nice variable ND..(wish the f5/55 had this).. good HD.. not great 4K 8 bit.. unless to an ext REC..and the Mk2 has a much nicer color science.. I would buy it as a B camera if I had the need rather than an Alpha series stills camera.. or climbing Everest ..E mount you can put just about any lens on it..I mean it cost not much more than a fancy Mattbox .!! but sure if you don't like it.. well.. just don't buy it.. some people dont like chocolate .. it takes all kinds ..


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#49 Enrique Salvador Toso

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:17 AM

I dont think FS5II is garbage, just an intent to put FS5, it price, it clear SDI output, magical internal auto nd filter and ProRes Raw in the mind of a lot of filmmakers that are comming from MILC and DSLR world, since the MkI is now 3 years old. I think its a good intent. Sony Venice internal gamma curve its amazing and Sony have been developing it for years. 

Alister Chapman, its a well knowed sony guru, has something to tell about it:

http://www.xdcam-use...colour-science/


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#50 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:22 PM

I dont think FS5II is garbage, just an intent to put FS5, it price, it clear SDI output, magical internal auto nd filter and ProRes Raw

 
It records Long GOP 8 bit 4:2:0 internally, which is a sub-standard codec developed for streaming on the internet, not for camera originals.

Yes, you can use an external recorder to capture, but there will be a $1600 license fee to make your camera spit out raw + the external recorder.

It looks like the price will be close to the same as the 1st gen, which puts it at exactly the same price point as the Ursa Mini Pro. Which sure, doesn't have the slow-mo function, but it does record RAW internally AND all the flavors of Pro Res which are necessary for today's discerning clients.
 

in the mind of a lot of filmmakers that are comming from MILC and DSLR world, since the MkI is now 3 years old. I think its a good intent. Sony Venice internal gamma curve its amazing and Sony have been developing it for years.


DSLR world? What is this 2009? I mean if you don't own a $5k+ camera now, you aren't going to be excited about this new FS5MKII. As one reporter at NAB put it; this is the most incremental upgrade Sony has done since the FS7MKII. They're not really solving any of the major problems, they're just continuing to make out of date products that require add-on's to work.
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#51 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:11 PM

 
It records Long GOP 8 bit 4:2:0 internally, which is a sub-standard codec developed for streaming on the internet, not for camera originals.

Yes, you can use an external recorder to capture, but there will be a $1600 license fee to make your camera spit out raw + the external recorder.

It looks like the price will be close to the same as the 1st gen, which puts it at exactly the same price point as the Ursa Mini Pro. Which sure, doesn't have the slow-mo function, but it does record RAW internally AND all the flavors of Pro Res which are necessary for today's discerning clients.
 

DSLR world? What is this 2009? I mean if you don't own a $5k+ camera now, you aren't going to be excited about this new FS5MKII. As one reporter at NAB put it; this is the most incremental upgrade Sony has done since the FS7MKII. They're not really solving any of the major problems, they're just continuing to make out of date products that require add-on's to work.

 

.. HD is 10 bit 422 internal ..4K is 8bit.. internal.. but 10 bit from SDI  to ext REC.. mostly they are rigged to Atomos without any license .. Fs5II RAW out is "free"


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 26 April 2018 - 07:12 PM.

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#52 Samuel Berger

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:39 PM

 

.. HD is 10 bit 422 internal ..4K is 8bit.. internal.. but 10 bit from SDI  to ext REC.. mostly they are rigged to Atomos without any license .. Fs5II RAW out is "free"

 

Sony needs to stop making garbage.


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#53 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 09:17 PM

 

Sony needs to stop making garbage.

 

 

Canon needs to stop making camera,s that resemble kettles... if only the two could get together ..Canon could tell Sony about REC709 color science and Sony could explain that a camera shouldn't ever be taller than it is long.. or you could just buy an Arri.. easy rig and 20 batteries ..


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#54 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 12:18 AM

.. HD is 10 bit 422 internal ..4K is 8bit.. internal.. but 10 bit from SDI  to ext REC.. mostly they are rigged to Atomos without any license .. Fs5II RAW out is "free"


HD is also limited to 50Mbps (pretty useless bandwidth), so even if it's 10 bit 4:2:2, it's still Long GOP bullshit compression. No different then everything else Sony or Panasonic makes in that price range.

According to multiple sources, (and Sony's website) the "raw" has an asterisk next to it and when you see what it references, it's a special sony part number which leads you down to a license fee in order to record Raw. Now as it's an unreleased product, maybe Sony will be smart and include it with the price, but even their own website doesn't appear that way as they call it an "upgrade'.
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#55 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 12:29 AM

Canon needs to stop making camera,s that resemble kettles... if only the two could get together ..Canon could tell Sony about REC709 color science and Sony could explain that a camera shouldn't ever be taller than it is long.. or you could just buy an Arri.. easy rig and 20 batteries ..


The FS series cameras are poorly packaged too. They don't hand hold well, the button placement is all over the place (outside of a few) the menus are a mess. I mean there isn't anything positive to talk about with FS Sony's in terms of "use".

So both Canon and Sony need to learn from BMD, who with the Pocket 4k are now kicking the Japanese asses in pretty much every category outside of high speed and honestly, I still consider that a "speciality" market.

The problem is, the Japanese purposely hinder their cameras abilities in order to force users to buy the next model up. So the FS5 doesn't do 10 bit internally, so you're forced to buy an FS7. The FS7 imager ain't all that great, so you're forced to buy an F55. Then you need hardware to record Raw again... uggggggggg. You can't win because they don't want you to win. They want to sell F65's (now the venice) and all the other "camcorders" are designed specicificilly so you will want the F65.

Sony has been doing this forever... I remember back in the Betamax days, they purposely didn't put the Beta 1 speed on many machines that sold in Japan with the feature. They hindered the machines ability because they wanted it to be in a different market and not compete with their higher-end models, yet the internal components were identical to the Japanese unit. In fact, the SLHF900 requires desoldering a jumper and removing a sticker to convert it for Beta 1 record speed, making it fit perfectly in line with the SLHF750 and 1000 units which were the only two in the US sold with Beta 1 speed.

As a former Sony supporter, I look back and realize how wrong they were. But I will admit, their commercial division did make THE BEST equipment PERIOD. Sadly, those days are long gone.
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#56 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 01:47 AM

But then how come the f5/55 have had 9 !! totally free firmware up dates if as you say they want to force you to buy the next camera .. your not being logical captain .. ‍✈️:) .. The fs7 and the f5 are actually very similar camera,s..   there is no way their goal is to force all the punters who buy Sony camera to buy a Venice !!..

 

Yes RAW license is included I believe Fs5 II..

 

Arri do the same with their license system.. ?

 

Fs series is a prosumer level ..fs5 is under $5K.. I mean come on.. as I said a Mattbox can cost more than that.. Canon C300 II .. was about $30K  (until no one bought it and they halfed the price)..and still designed like a kettle..  I mean look at the sales figures .. Sony cant be doing that much wrong .. I dont have shares .. and for sure the "newer" REC 709 is way better than they have done so far.. bit of mind set and useless management I guess..  I wouldn't rush to buy the fs5 either.. as my main camera.. nor would I a BM.. or a C200.. its not my market.. for those in that market there the fs5 is a good camera in that price level..


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#57 Mike Krumlauf

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 01:08 PM

I have to agree with Sam. This camera is not worth its price at all. Then again i'm a bit biased in that other than the Arri CMOS sensors and some of the newer Reds, i really for the most part can not stand how CMOS looks and have remained faithful to CCD technology in the cameras i own. I will only rent newer gear when a cilent asks for it but for my personal work.. CCD all the way. Seems like im not alone in this either.. lots of people seem to be using older cinema cameras like the F23/35, varicam and the like.


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#58 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 04:35 AM

Mike.. in the freelance market you are dead in the water with CCD now..  thats just the reality of the situation.. in all markets.. except maybe some sports coverage still shot with ENG ..  Fs5 is rubbish 4K ,unless to EXT recorder.. in HD its totally fine.. 10 bit 422 HD .. the MkII even has the improved REC709 color set up.. its price is tiny.. and many many people are making a living using it.. there must be only a hand full of people making a living as freelance DP shooting with F23/35 as their primary camera.. if any..except for shooting their own projects..  Im not arguing quality .. but reality .. want to make money.. get a CMOS camera.. renting is a mugs game finically ..


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#59 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 04:55 AM

 

 

Canon needs to stop making camera,s that resemble kettles... if only the two could get together ..Canon could tell Sony about REC709 color science and Sony could explain that a camera shouldn't ever be taller than it is long.. or you could just buy an Arri.. easy rig and 20 batteries ..

Or you could buy an Ursa Mini and find it's all roughly the right shape and works quite nicely. Only apparently you just can't because... er... 

 

...there's some reason it isn't OK, er...

 

I don't know.

 

P


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#60 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 05:38 AM

Or you could buy an Ursa Mini and find it's all roughly the right shape and works quite nicely. Only apparently you just can't because... er... 

 

...there's some reason it isn't OK, er...

 

I don't know.

 

P

 

Yes there is Im afraid.. its never ever requested .. its not a "standard" camera thats on any prod co,s list.. its just the way it is.. prod co,s only will shoot with the camera everyone else is using.. they dont  know anything techie.. they just want to deal with what they and their post know about.. and the camera they hear about over a latte ..    Black Magic is just not on the radar .. simple as that..shoot your own stuff.. of course Im sure its a totally fine camera.. but jobbing freelancer .. wont pay any bills.. 


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