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Loop Eumig r2000

loop super 8 eumig r2000

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#1 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:19 PM

Hi everyone, 

 

For an art installation, I would really like to use the Eumig r2000 instaprojector. 

 

My question is...is there any possible way to loop the film? 

 

Even for 10 seconds. The longer the better, but I could do also with very short time. 

 

Thanks a lot


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#2 Frank Wylie

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:33 PM

Why not?  It has coaxial feed and supply reels;  what could be more simple?


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#3 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:49 PM

Why not?  It has coaxial feed and supply reels;  what could be more simple?

 

Great. sorry I literally don't have any knowledge in film projection. So, what I would have to do is to just join the ends right? Is it possible also to loop for a longer duration? 


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#4 Frank Wylie

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:52 PM

Take a bit of leader or scrap film, take off the reels and feed the film into the projector and run it until you have film emerging from the take-up side of the projector. 

 

All you need to do it run out enough that will attach back to the film where it enters the projector in a tension free loop that doesn't scrape or bind against anything. 

 

This is the "working length or time"; the absolute minimum that must be in the projector to form the basis of your loop. 

 

Count the perforations, convert them to seconds in running time and you'll know how little you can run. 

 

As far as how LONG you can make your loop, only your imagination and ingenuity will determine that!  The film needs to be supported so that it doesn't scrape or scratch against anything or be stepped upon or tangled in anything close by.  Be sure there are no twists in the film and try to find a way to apply a bit of gentle tension in the loop.  This can be accomplished with a roller on a hinged arm that gravity will naturally press down on the loop and give the tension without tearing the film.  It doesn't have to be very heavy...

 

Salvage film rollers from a broken projector or similar item (or make them) and put them on wooden slats or dowels to guide the loop over and around and attach them to whatever is handy.  You can make a simple wooden stand to hold the rollers above the projector; just be sure the film stays relatively flat and enters and exits the projector in-lin with the film path; no right angles. This is called a "loop tree".

 

Here's an ambitious 16mm version:  https://firstkissfil...ic-inspiration/

 

I would suggest you use a very well-made tape splice on the film rather than a cement splice, as it stands a better chance of surviving repetitive views.  Be sure it is cleanly cut, without adhesive to jam in the gate.


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#5 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:44 PM

Take a bit of leader or scrap film, take off the reels and feed the film into the projector and run it until you have film emerging from the take-up side of the projector. 

 

All you need to do it run out enough that will attach back to the film where it enters the projector in a tension free loop that doesn't scrape or bind against anything. 

 

This is the "working length or time"; the absolute minimum that must be in the projector to form the basis of your loop. 

 

Count the perforations, convert them to seconds in running time and you'll know how little you can run. 

 

As far as how LONG you can make your loop, only your imagination and ingenuity will determine that!  The film needs to be supported so that it doesn't scrape or scratch against anything or be stepped upon or tangled in anything close by.  Be sure there are no twists in the film and try to find a way to apply a bit of gentle tension in the loop.  This can be accomplished with a roller on a hinged arm that gravity will naturally press down on the loop and give the tension without tearing the film.  It doesn't have to be very heavy...

 

Salvage film rollers from a broken projector or similar item (or make them) and put them on wooden slats or dowels to guide the loop over and around and attach them to whatever is handy.  You can make a simple wooden stand to hold the rollers above the projector; just be sure the film stays relatively flat and enters and exits the projector in-lin with the film path; no right angles. This is called a "loop tree".

 

Here's an ambitious 16mm version:  https://firstkissfil...ic-inspiration/

 

I would suggest you use a very well-made tape splice on the film rather than a cement splice, as it stands a better chance of surviving repetitive views.  Be sure it is cleanly cut, without adhesive to jam in the gate.

 

thanks so much. 

 

so, I think i got it.

 

Something like this (sorry about the crappiness of the drawing - and ignore the grey horizontal line on the back).

 

[img]https://imgur.com/a/iVHfo[/img]


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#6 Frank Wylie

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:00 AM

Yes! 

 

However you should remove at least the take-up reel, as it will spin and abrade the film. 

 

The supply reel can remain on the machine and act as a guide, as it is not driven when projecting forward.

 

Other tips:

 

Here's the user manual if you don't have it:  Eumig R2000

 

Clean the gate as per the manual instructions.

 

If the film starts to get dirty, you can take a lint free cloth and some film cleaner and gently wipe the film as it runs in the projector at the point farthest away from the film gate as the projector runs;  The film should be dry by the time it hits the gate.  Under NO circumstances let film wet with cleaner enter the gate!  You will be sorry!

 

Be sure to build-in periodic rest periods for the projector as part of your presentation.  It was NOT designed to run hours on-end and it will melt-down.  I would suggest you run it no more than 15 to 20 minutes continuously, and then let it rest for at least 5 minutes.  Ideally, you can stop the projector, turn off the lamp and leave the fan motor running to let it rapidly cool down, however I am unaware IF this model projector will run in standby with the cooling fan running or if it just shuts off everything when you turn off the lamp.

 

When you stop to cool the projector, do so where the splice in the loop can be examined and replaced if needed.  Check it every time you stop the projector to cool;  better safe than sorry.

 

Have a film splicer and tape on-hand for emergency repairs.

 

Finally;  have at least 1, better yet 2, spare lamps on-hand and know how to change it.  Nothing like blowing a lamp and ending the show...

 

Good luck.


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#7 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:51 AM

Yes! 

 

However you should remove at least the take-up reel, as it will spin and abrade the film. 

 

The supply reel can remain on the machine and act as a guide, as it is not driven when projecting forward.

 

Other tips:

 

Here's the user manual if you don't have it:  Eumig R2000

 

Clean the gate as per the manual instructions.

 

If the film starts to get dirty, you can take a lint free cloth and some film cleaner and gently wipe the film as it runs in the projector at the point farthest away from the film gate as the projector runs;  The film should be dry by the time it hits the gate.  Under NO circumstances let film wet with cleaner enter the gate!  You will be sorry!

 

Be sure to build-in periodic rest periods for the projector as part of your presentation.  It was NOT designed to run hours on-end and it will melt-down.  I would suggest you run it no more than 15 to 20 minutes continuously, and then let it rest for at least 5 minutes.  Ideally, you can stop the projector, turn off the lamp and leave the fan motor running to let it rapidly cool down, however I am unaware IF this model projector will run in standby with the cooling fan running or if it just shuts off everything when you turn off the lamp.

 

When you stop to cool the projector, do so where the splice in the loop can be examined and replaced if needed.  Check it every time you stop the projector to cool;  better safe than sorry.

 

Have a film splicer and tape on-hand for emergency repairs.

 

Finally;  have at least 1, better yet 2, spare lamps on-hand and know how to change it.  Nothing like blowing a lamp and ending the show...

 

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Probably I will have a timer on the plug so that switches off every 15 minutes for 5 minutes and then starts again. Do you think it would help if I open up the side of the projector (where I can change the bulb) and place a small fan facing it?

 

Also, I am reading online that with the CIR guillotine the splice will be less noticeable when projected. would you recommend it or a press tape splice would be stronger?

 

Thanks!! 


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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

Depending on your setup you may be able to run the projector with the cover off if you can set up a light baffle to keep stray light out of the room.
The external fan idea sounds good- see how hot it gets, it might be OK for longer.
A well-made straight CIR splice only covers 2 frames and if you smooth the tape the tape down it's less noticeable. It's quite strong enough- you don't need Presstapes, but if you don't have a splicer already the Presstape splicer is cheaper, although the tapes are far more expensive than CIR.
Super-8 CIR splicers are quite rare now and cost upwards of £60.

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#9 Frank Wylie

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:57 PM

 

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Probably I will have a timer on the plug so that switches off every 15 minutes for 5 minutes and then starts again. Do you think it would help if I open up the side of the projector (where I can change the bulb) and place a small fan facing it?

 

Also, I am reading online that with the CIR guillotine the splice will be less noticeable when projected. would you recommend it or a press tape splice would be stronger?

 

Thanks!! 

 

The timer idea is not so good; the inrush current of when the timer relay kicks and the lamp and motor come online probably will, blow the lamp!  No, you should manually pause the projector and turn off the lamp.  Inconvenient for sure, but unless you adapt or built a LED lamp replacement for your tungsten bulb, the danger of blowing a lamp is very real.  Someone on Ebay was selling LED bulb replacement for certain types of Super8mm/Regular 8mm projectors, but I am unsure if it will fit this model of projector.

 

Here's a DIY version on Youtube...

 

Of course if you do this, there is no reason you couldn't let it run until the film fell apart, as the heat of the LED should be orders of magnitude lower...

 

As Mark states, the CIR splice would be best, but no matter what tape splice you use, be double sure to smooth it out very carefully so that all bubbles are gone under the tape.


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#10 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:12 AM

 

The timer idea is not so good; the inrush current of when the timer relay kicks and the lamp and motor come online probably will, blow the lamp!  No, you should manually pause the projector and turn off the lamp.  Inconvenient for sure, but unless you adapt or built a LED lamp replacement for your tungsten bulb, the danger of blowing a lamp is very real.  Someone on Ebay was selling LED bulb replacement for certain types of Super8mm/Regular 8mm projectors, but I am unsure if it will fit this model of projector.

 

Here's a DIY version on Youtube...

 

Of course if you do this, there is no reason you couldn't let it run until the film fell apart, as the heat of the LED should be orders of magnitude lower...

 

As Mark states, the CIR splice would be best, but no matter what tape splice you use, be double sure to smooth it out very carefully so that all bubbles are gone under the tape.

 

 

Ok , thanks! I have a friend that could be interested in helping me out with replacing the bulb with an LED one.

 

One last question, once the exhibition is done, do I break the loop where the splice has been done, trying to take the tape away? or do I have to make a new cut? 


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#11 Frank Wylie

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 07:01 PM

Just peel off the tape off the splice...


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#12 Francesco Palombi

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 05:40 PM

I'm thinking...would I complicate my life too much by running a second eumig r2000 and loop the film while running on both projectors? 


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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:56 AM

 

Just peel off the tape off the splice...

If the splice is in the leader and not between frames of picture you need to keep, just cut through it.

If peeling the tape off, you may be able to just bend the splice until the tape detaches, but if not, and you don't want to distort the film, start the peel carefully with a razor blade. Then use tweezers or your fingers when there is enough to get hold of.

Two projectors is more ambitious, the damage to the film is doubled and so is the risk of a breakdown. No reason in principle why it wouldn't work, though.

Sounds fun, actually.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 08 May 2018 - 03:58 AM.

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Glidecam

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Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

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