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Noise WITH F55 slog3.

camera sony f55

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#21 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:42 PM

I expose skin tones from a calibrated monitor, not from a waveform, and I use a 709 image to do it. It's pretty tricky to accurately judge exposure by viewing Log, as it's so flat. Far easier to do it in 709, and then check highlights and shadows in Log if there are areas you are worried about.


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#22 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:43 PM

As above.. personally I would never try to judge exposure .. or focus for that matter off the log image.. use the 709 LUT and expose as you would for 709.. there is also a handy High/Low function in the assign menu.. this will give you highlight and shadow images very handy for seeing how much high light the log image is actually capturing.. which you won't see off the LUTed Image.. no free lunch !.. but I would agree with Stuart.. if you can work off a well set up monitor your away ..


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#23 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:31 PM

Out of curiousity. As someone mentioned the crown would love some thoughts on how they might shoot and light the show with the F55 and get such little noise?
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#24 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:49 PM

Out of curiousity. As someone mentioned the crown would love some thoughts on how they might shoot and light the show with the F55 and get such little noise?

The F55 is not a particularly noisy camera, but most people rate it at 800 ISO in Cine EI mode, rather than the native 1250 ISO. This helps to reduce what little noise there is, at the expense of 2/3 stop highlight latitude.


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#25 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:12 PM

On a recent shoot I found it to be extremely noisy in the blacks even at EI 800. I eventually ended up lifting the black levels above zero but was unable to get the contrast and ratio I wanted. That is why I am so curious how others expose there black levels. ESP such a large production.
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#26 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:18 PM

On a recent shoot I found it to be extremely noisy in the blacks even at EI 800. I eventually ended up lifting the black levels above zero but was unable to get the contrast and ratio I wanted. That is why I am so curious how others expose there black levels. ESP such a large production.

Lifting black levels is going to make noise worse, not better. Were you in Cine EI mode? What MLUT were you using?


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#27 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:39 PM

Rec709800 shooting slog3cine. Exposed with false color. I did not lift blacks in post I meant- I over exposed so blacks were no longer at 0 ire
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#28 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:41 PM

Rec709800 shooting slog3cine. Exposed with false color. I did not lift blacks- I over exposed - so blacks were no longer at 0 ire no matter what I did I seemed to get noise though. I have had this issue with the camera more than once. Curious what else could be causing it? Maybe overall exposure? But blacks at zero should not have noise?
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#29 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:44 PM

Rec709800 shooting slog3cine. Exposed with false color. I did not lift blacks- I over exposed - so blacks were no longer at 0 ire no matter what I did I seemed to get noise though. I have had this issue with the camera more than once. Curious what else could be causing it? Maybe overall exposure? But blacks at zero should not have noise?
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#30 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:55 PM

I've never used the camera with that setup, so I don't know. I always use it in Cine EI, SLog3, ISO 800, MLUT LC709A, and expose from either the viewfinder, or a calibrated monitor. Never had a problem.

 

When you color-timed from the camera originals, was the noise still there, or was it just in the 709?


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#31 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 12:07 AM

Still there. Will link to some footage or stills tomorrow!


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#32 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:45 AM

Rec709800 shooting slog3cine. Exposed with false color. I did not lift blacks- I over exposed - so blacks were no longer at 0 ire no matter what I did I seemed to get noise though. I have had this issue with the camera more than once. Curious what else could be causing it? Maybe overall exposure? But blacks at zero should not have noise?

When you say you over-exposed, do you mean you were overexposing by rating the camera at 800ISO, or you were overexposing the 709 image in false color? Or both?


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#33 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 09:03 PM

Sony's ratings for the camera can't be trusted. But if you just leave it at it's 1250 ISO 'native' setting, and use false colour to get a grey card properly exposed, you'll have no noise and plenty of latitude.

The camera doesn't need to be overexposed to be noiseless, it just needs to be exposed properly. From my tests, the bodies I've used have all been sitting around 640 ISO (on a lightmeter) in order to correctly expose an 18% grey card at 41% IRE (the correct value for middle grey when shooting SLOG3).


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#34 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 09:52 PM

Mark, I think we are essentially proposing the same thing. As the camera is always 1250 ISO in Cine EI mode, the only difference is that you are suggesting that, as the camera is actually slower, then using false color will give you a 'correct' exposure at around 640 ISO. This is the same as setting the camera to 640 ISO (or in my case 800 ISO) and trusting the MLUT to give you a correct exposure on the monitor. Two different ways to arrive at the same place, although, if you use an MLUT, the monitor will at least look correct.

 

I agree, though, that the F55 is not a noisy camera.


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#35 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 10:42 PM

Mark, I think we are essentially proposing the same thing. As the camera is always 1250 ISO in Cine EI mode, the only difference is that you are suggesting that, as the camera is actually slower, then using false color will give you a 'correct' exposure at around 640 ISO. This is the same as setting the camera to 640 ISO (or in my case 800 ISO) and trusting the MLUT to give you a correct exposure on the monitor. Two different ways to arrive at the same place, although, if you use an MLUT, the monitor will at least look correct.

 

I agree, though, that the F55 is not a noisy camera.

 

I'd tend to agree Stuart.

Though I've always wondered about a bit about this approach (adjusting the EI settings on the camera). As I know you, and quite a few other people recommend it.

I never adjusted the EI settings when I've used the Sonys, because (once exposed correctly) the monitoring output has always appeared accurate to me (camera left at 1250 EI, but exposed at 640). So I always assumed that adjusting the EI value on the camera (so both setting the camera to 640 EI and exposing it for 640 ISO), I'd be looking at an outputted image that was actually a stop hotter than it should be.

Though in hindsight, since I've always been sending out the untouched log signal from the camera to monitors that I can then apply 3D LUTs to, I'd possibly not be seeing any difference on them anyway? It would just be the EVF that receives the brighter 640 EI in that situation right?


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#36 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 10:51 PM

 

I'd tend to agree Stuart.

Though I've always wondered about a bit about this approach (adjusting the EI settings on the camera). As I know you, and quite a few other people recommend it.

I never adjusted the EI settings when I've used the Sonys, because (once exposed correctly) the monitoring output has always appeared accurate to me (camera left at 1250 EI, but exposed at 640). So I always assumed that adjusting the EI value on the camera (so both setting the camera to 640 EI and exposing it for 640 ISO), I'd be looking at an outputted image that was actually a stop hotter than it should be.

Though in hindsight, since I've always been sending out the untouched log signal from the camera to monitors that I can then apply 3D LUTs to, I'd possibly not be seeing any difference on them anyway? It would just be the EVF that receives the brighter 640 EI in that situation right?

If you're using the Log output to judge exposure, then yes, you wouldn't see any difference. I don't use False Color, and I set exposure from the Rec709, so for me, it's important to have the MLUT compensating for the over-exposure.

 

Either way works, but I just don't like judging exposure from Log.


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