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Mole Tener on 100A 120V 3-phase Service

electric electrical three phase 3 phase AC balance balancing lighting

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#1 D.C. DuFrane

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:04 PM

Hi everyone! I have a few quick questions about running a Mole-Richardson 10kW Tener Solarspot (or really any other large fixture) from a 100A 120V service panel on the building mains. The panel has Cam Lock output and will be going into a 100A distro box like this:

 

https://www.lightthe...OsaAlBMEALw_wcB

 

I will need to power fixtures such as the Mole Tener and ARRI M90, which I assume we will be fitting with 100A bates connectors.

 

My questions are:

 

Does the power need to be balanced across all three phases, or is this only necessary on a generator and not from AC power?

 

If it does require balancing, what adapter would be used? (100A - 2x 60A Snakebite would only connect on two legs, and I've never seen a 100A Bates - 3x 60A, besides the fact that it sounds like a dangerous and bad idea)

 

I believe that if I run the lamp from one leg, or split between two with a 100A - 2x 60A Snakebite, that the neutral in theory could hold the excess load. I won't be able to run an acceptable ghost load along with the 10kW with the power I currently have. What are the negatives, if any, of doing this, and am I just completely wrong about that?

 

Is it better/possible to get a single phase distro box and run only 4-wire from the 5 Cam Lock outputs on the service panel?

 

I understand the basic concepts of balancing a load within 20% for each leg of 3-phase off a genny, but I am new to using 3-phase AC power from a building. Hope this isn't a stupid question, but I couldn't find a specific answer elsewhere. Am I worrying too much? Too little?

 

Thank you guys in advance for your help & patience!


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#2 Ed Conley

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:04 PM

same concept as with using a generator.


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#3 Ed Conley

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:17 PM

You cant use a splitter- doesn't work like the.  The splitters split the power "down"  100amp can be split into two 60amp bates but you cant split the 100amp (83amps) needed for the 10k in to two separate feeders.

 

Only using 4 wire off of a 5 wire feed doesn't help either since the source is still 3-phase ( 5-wire)

 

 

Your 10k Mole is going to need a 100A 120v bates  and it alone will eat up almost all your power. 

 

Arri M90 will need 240v bates or a snake bite and actually splits the power better but you'll still eat up the same amount of total amps - 


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#4 D.C. DuFrane

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:52 PM

Thanks so much for your help and the info on splitters!

 

All I need to run is one lamp at a time (testing the fixtures for rental) so using up all of my power on one of these is fine with me. So if I'm running just the 10kW from one leg, I won't need to worry about damaging my neutral since it should be rated to carry the necessary amperage, am I correct?

 

It is my understanding that the service is 120V only, will I need to talk to my building electrician about 240V service or is there another option for the M90? I'm glad you brought this up as I had overlooked the 230V only ballast.


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#5 Ed Conley

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:13 PM

is this a panel (multiple circuit breakers) or a disconnect switch box dedicated to the cam locks?

 

If you are just testing the lights then you'll be fine.


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#6 JD Hartman

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:43 PM

IMHO, you really lack a basic understanding of electricity and distribution.  You shouldn't be trying to do what you're doing, strong possibility of injuring yourself or others.


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#7 D.C. DuFrane

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 09:06 AM

Ed - This will be a disconnect switch dedicated to the cam locks. It has not been installed yet so there is still plenty of time to reconsider the needed service before it will be in use.

 

JD - A fair point, and I appreciate your honesty. I have an experienced gaffer that will be training me and supervising this when we get there, so I'm not in this alone and definitely taking precautions, just wanted to see if I could glean any info from you guys here before I meet with them.

 

 

That being said, does anyone have recommendations for books on electricity or good courses in the New York City area?


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#8 Ed Conley

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:43 PM

Just have him drop 4-Camlocks so you have the option for 120v and 240v connections.


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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:55 AM

I hope I have enough of a record of fairness to say this, but if there's one thing that's (if I may make so bold) better outside the US, it's mains power.

 

How many different connectors, voltages, and phase relationships does one power distribution system need?!

 

I do not know what a "2/0 Bare-Wire Tie-In Set" is, but I have my suspicions, and I'm not sure it should need to exist.

 

static1.squarespace.jpg

 

Aieee!

 

Aieee!


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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

Inclined to agree. Shame not to be able to plug a blonde into the wall.
Down on the range (Shoeburyness) we could, and occasionally did, draw up to 63A at 240V and only needed 2 different plugs, a blue and a red IEC, with locks so the blast didn't knock them out. Plus the usual 3-pin plug. Plenty for a 12kW. Or a set of blondes that you didn't have to bring home because they had high explosive splashed all over them.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 23 February 2018 - 12:08 PM.

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#11 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:19 PM

I'm not sure I envy that particular part of your production history, Mark.

 

ca6edbbd3c6d674762db996b3ab3d94a.jpg


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#12 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:32 PM

:lol:
Oh we were quite safe. Usually behind 3 feet of concrete half a mile away. Still insured for 4 years' salary, though.
And it was the first and last chance I'll ever have to spend a million pounds. Went through 16mm. VNF by the mile. Fascinating stuff. That's me with the ST on my avatar.
Early calls, though.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 23 February 2018 - 12:36 PM.

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#13 Ed Conley

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:07 PM

You should have a copy of 

Set Lighting Technician's Handbook 

 

by Harry C Box


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#14 D.C. DuFrane

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:02 PM

Yes I have it! Re-reading those chapters now that I have a better understanding of whats going on. Thanks for your help!


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#15 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:42 PM

Not sure they're with us, Phil. Have we gone off a bit too tangential?

Some of that 3-pin stuff is suck-air-through-teeth scary.  Not sure it would pass BS or CE. It looks a lot like my gran's house wiring from the 1950s. I've still got one of the light bulb socket adapters.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 23 February 2018 - 06:46 PM.

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#16 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:48 PM

I suspect they're too busy being either confused or amused by safety standards that begin "BS," which has a rather different connotation in the new world.
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#17 JD Hartman

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:13 PM

The image you posted doesn't include a 100A Bated to Edison fanout, a.k.a. a Five Peckered Billygoat.

https://www.parlayeq.com/adapters/100a-bates-edison-fan-out  


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#18 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 05:21 AM

Or a "camlok suicide m/m."

 

Yes, that's suicidal...

 

But hang on a second, are those three-phase camloks colour-coded in red, blue and black?

 

Red, blue and yellow, surely?

 

That's what it used to be here, before EU madness infested everything, and changed it to brown, black and grey, which is insane.

 

Edit: ah, christ:

 

3-phase-wiring-uk-old-uk-new-usa.png


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#19 JD Hartman

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:43 AM

Or a "camlok suicide m/m."

 

Yes, that's suicidal...

 

But hang on a second, are those three-phase camloks colour-coded in red, blue and black?

 

Red, blue and yellow, surely?

 

That's what it used to be here, before EU madness infested everything, and changed it to brown, black and grey, which is insane.

 

Edit: ah, christ:

 

3-phase-wiring-uk-old-uk-new-usa.png

 

 A male-male Cam turnaround is necessary to create a feeder:Ring-of-Fire. Since you don't make or break energized cams or Bates connections, I don't see the extreme hazard.  Hot legs can be any color in the USA except white or green.


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#20 Mark Dunn

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:53 AM


EU madness infested everything, and changed it to brown, black and grey, which is insane.

 

I don't think it was quite like that- the EU merely adopted the IEC standard, presumably as part of the implementation of the single market. Countries belong to the IEC individually.

I think it's handy to be able to buy stuff in, or from, any EU country with the same standards. And handy for Polish crew to be able to rig in Portugal, say, without fear of error.

 


Edited by Mark Dunn, 24 February 2018 - 06:54 AM.

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