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New Red Camera - Raven


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#101 Will Barber

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 01:49 PM

I'll be sure to share what I can, but it likely won't be for a while because we don't want to release too much info on the film. It's sad, because I'd love to show people how well this camera works. I'll be sure to let people know once it's screening in festivals. If we get some free time with the camera we were thinking about shooting a little extra footage and posting it online, but I doubt we'll get that. We nearly rented one for an entire month from NYC, in which case we would've had a lot more downtime with the camera, but settled for just doing weekends because we got a deal on the camera and lenses locally.

And as a person who doesn't own much gear, certainly not much professional gear, the main drawback to investing in the RED system seems to be the media cost, their SSDs are ridiculous. The LCD screen, sure, whatever. But I mean besides those things and the cost of cables, there's not much you need to get the camera up and running. Maybe a bit more to get it rigged up to fully function in a super professional environment, but if I was at that level I'd probably have different considerations and not even own a camera at all.  But for me personally with the Dragon sensor it's finally become a camera worth using, and with the low cost of the Raven body, a camera more worth owning.


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#102 bill h. hendrickson

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:00 PM

You're right about one thing, I did forget the SSD module had an EVF output. 

 

Again, my point is that you can't put a V mount battery receptacle onto the back of the actual camera body without disrupting critical resources. It's not a big deal, you can always run cables all over the place on your rig. If you followed RED's accessory guide, you'd have a nice clean camera without all that mess. 

thats not true though. As some one who's actually used the camera the v mount plate attached to the back of the camera does not change the way you run cables.  All your ports are still accessible. like your sdi, hdmi,sync, ctrl, power all of them. the way you cable your came does not change one bit.  Im not sure where you got that idea.  you should really get your hands on one of the cameras before continuing commenting on it .  I mean thats a basic thing if you actually held the camera with a v mount plate on it you would know.

 

Now that you know 98 percent of all your bad thoughts on the camera are wrong, including this V mount cable one you might want to use one. obviously all the bad things you thought were not true so basically you actually do like the camera.  and you can edit the native files easily on all your editing systems. Premiere pro does a good job of that you can edit red raw and a simple mac book no problem.  I can teach you 


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#103 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:27 PM

Can you post pictures of a RED with a V mount plate physically attached to the back of the camera with screws? I'd like to see how the big I/O port on the back isn't blocked by the V mount... because wait a sec... it would be completely blocked if you did that. What I know is that port is kind of important for add on's like recording audio and syncing timecode.  My earlier point was what a poor design the camera is and how everything they make is highly accessory driven. I'd be more then happy to discuss the other issues like THE OPEN PORTS ON THE TOP OF THE BODY!!!! HELLO!!!! and of course the need for an optical low pass filter to fix the color issues the cameras have. 

 

This is is what one of my typical timeline's look like with Pro Res, playing in real-time, direct off our Blackmagic cameras with AMA link (no importing). I'd love to see 12 tracks of native realtime playback of RED code in any software package. We're barely able to play one stream at a time in Premiere at 1/4 resolution. The moment you add two streams and some transitions, the system you've gotta knock down the res to 1/8. 

 

timeline.jpg


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#104 bill h. hendrickson

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:41 PM

you don't need that I/o port thats for modules has nothing to do with cables or syncing audio and time code. ITs just to talk to the camera when you want to add different modules like a secondary card reader or many other things .  so thats the end of that ..so again "what you know" is kind of getting in the way of having an educated conversation . we need to get past the whole "what you know" thing and work on some facts.  just go to RED.com theres pictures and you can clearly see that the audio which is in the front of the camera is not blocked. the sync which is below the V mount is not blocked . I just told you that . Like i said please actually hold one in your hand you'll see what you say is wrong.

 

its funny because you argue things that clearly show you have never picked up or really used the camera. i have no idea who has arguments like that when they have no idea . Just relax man go pick up a camera or go to RED.com all the answers are there no need to keep making the same wrong comments .. 

 

you don't even know what that long i/o part does . look at the camera .. the audio is recorded on the body on the front of the camera.

 

about editing

Ok but your comment was that the software could not take in RAW red files. It can . thats the end of that . playback is based on how fast your system is . now your just coming up with new arguments .


Edited by bill h. hendrickson, 21 October 2015 - 05:49 PM.

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#105 bill h. hendrickson

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:43 PM

tyler take your time don't  answer right away carefully review what i wrote and review the millions of pictures on the web then put one in your hands maybe go to a university and they will let you play. please do all those things so we can stop messing around and have a serious conversation where we both know the facts. basically all the conversations are at this point is telling you how your wrong. lets move on from that and talk about the camera its self .. i mean come on its a little silly RED.com will point out exactly where the audio ports are.

 

most cameras have OLPF's if not all that idont know 100 percent i do know sony, alexa,phantom all have OLPF and sony and phantom have switchable ones too . thats nothing new


Edited by bill h. hendrickson, 21 October 2015 - 05:46 PM.

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#106 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:54 PM

you don't need that I/o port thats for modules has nothing to do with cables or syncing audio and time code.


Really? So the camera has timecode out, multi-channel XLR (audio) inputs and headphone output for monitoring right there on the body?

This is what that connector is for:

http://www.red.com/s...s/pro-io-module

http://www.red.com/s...edvolt-expander

In our modern world of shooting with video cameras, it's amazing people don't want/need audio pre-synced to the image so they don't have to re-sync later.
 

its funny because you argue things that clearly show you have never picked up or really used the camera.


I have actually, but I let the professionals at the rental house put the package together. After careful examination, I saw no way to mount a V mount battery to the back without blocking the I/O port. Sure you can screw the V mount battery onto the back of the I/O module, but for what reason? It's a modular system, the REDVOLT battery system works fine for me.
 

Ok but your comment was that the software could not take in RAW red files. It can . thats the end of that . playback is based on how fast your system is . now your just coming up with new arguments .


In the real world, it's an unusable workflow. So no Bill, it doesn't work. You can't really edit using RED Code, you can tinker, but actual editing is pretty much impossible. My point is that Pro Res is integrated and does work fine with multiple streams because it's designed specifically for multi-stream playback, spreading the load amongst the processor cores instead of gobbling up all the GPU like RED Code.
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#107 bill h. hendrickson

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:07 PM

ok lets break it down once again.

the I/o module ( the link you provided)  is to add extra PORTS ill repeat .. extra to the ones on the body already has some of the ports on the I/o module are just pass throughs from the body..  so go and block it you'll get all your sync with out it .

the camera has time code out using the ports on the body, it has multichannel audio in with mini plugs not XLR right on the body in the front like i said before .

 

I really hope were done with that haha i don't know how much clearer i can be so ill say it one more time

 

On the body its self with a v mount attached to it you DO NOT block anything that gives time code, audio, sync,video, and headphone ALL ON THE BODY NOT BLOCKED

 

so yes you can sync sound to the video with just the ports on the body.

 

once again the long I/O port on the back can be blocked and you will get all your video out , timecode , audio.

 

well tyler I'm in the re world and I edit fine on premire and color in davinci so there you go real world proven . I stopped using prores unless from an alexa 4 years ago and my system works perfectly.  

 

 

Like i said go inspect a camera don't let the rental house do it for you actually play with it rather then post links of things you don't understand.  Im actually trying to help so you don't have all these wrong things floating in your mind.

 

any other questions i can clear up for you I'm pretty sure the sound sync is cleared up by now .. i mean i am in the real world and shoot high end things with the vmount to the body and i record audio . real world 

 

the modules are just extra stuff everything you need to get going is on the body .


Edited by bill h. hendrickson, 21 October 2015 - 06:09 PM.

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#108 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 07:07 AM

did I mention something about not wasting your time Bill.. Ive been through all this with Tyler regards Sony camera,s and codec,, same stuff.. on NLE can edit XDCAM files etc.. XAVC is from Mars and totally useless.. F65 is crap as it cant handle highlights .. its a losing hand..  fold and move to another table ..


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#109 Oron Cohen

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 07:57 AM

I'd like them to make an MFT version so then you can throw any mount you want on it (basically). But, I almost think it'll just be EoS

MFT would be the best I guess, but I PL would be good as well :-) 


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#110 aapo lettinen

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:04 AM

the problem with the Epic body is that the v-lock battery restricts the access to the connectors from the back quite effectively unless you have very tiny fingers. Most of the time you have baseplate and rods on the camera so the connectors are squeezed between them and the v-lock. Of course you can use them without taking anything off but it is not a practical place for regularly used connectors unless you use the camera without any accessories at all or use their dsmc batteries (complete garbage btw) inside the handle....

 

this is what I shoot my own stuff mostly on, for that use it is more practical than for example Epic or FS7 and much cheaper to use also  B)   

 

16171748547_a5fc60f61a_c.jpg


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#111 aapo lettinen

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:08 AM

the problem with the MFT is that it is not sturdy enough for any kind of cine use. Something like Sony's FZ mount would be nice: short ffd but large enough mount so that it can withstand FF use, matte boxes etc :)


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#112 Oron Cohen

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 09:24 AM

the problem with the MFT is that it is not sturdy enough for any kind of cine use. Something like Sony's FZ mount would be nice: short ffd but large enough mount so that it can withstand FF use, matte boxes etc :)

Sony keeps the rights for their mounts, so no way that would happen. MFT has been used on several cameras quite successfully (GH4, BMCC, BMPCC, JVC), but not sure if it's passable due to flange distance issues from sensor? PL could work well though and make life easier on rental houses having the camera as backup body. 


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#113 aapo lettinen

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 03:09 AM

this gives me some ideas :)   

http://woodencamera....dification.html  

 

the 4 screw Epic mount would be quite usable for other cameras also, especially now when the Chinese and other cheap manufacturers are making affordable mounts for it :)  

 

something like IMS would be very good for today's cameras, the Canon EF mount has tolerances and restricts your lens and adapter choices quite a lot. 

I think that in today's production environment the ability to change between Canon and PL lenses would be very good feature


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