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Arri SR3 filming a CRT Television


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#1 Suzanne Friesen

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 12:45 AM

Hi!

 

Next weekend I am working on a project where script calls for shooting images that are playing on a CRT (old style 80s/90s) television screen. We are shooting on 16mm using an Arri SR3.

 

I have read that possible solutions to avoiding the banding include: shooting at 23.976 fps with a shutter angle of 144 degrees and using the phase button to position the thin band, shooting at 29.97 fps with a 180 degree shutter angle, or shooting at 24 fps with a 144 degree shutter angle and having a very thin band that may not be too noticeable.

 

I'd love any additional insights or techniques that worked well for you in this kind of a situation. We are not able to place an LCD screen behind the old TV glass, unfortunately.

 

Thank you so much,

Suzanne


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 06:40 AM

Assuming you are in the U.S. (59.94 Hz TV), shooting at 23.976 instead of 24 will stop the roll bar from rolling, and 144 degrees shutter will reduce the thickness of the roll bar to a thin line, and the phase button will allow you to place the line... your choices are really either one line in the center or two lines at the top and bottom third.
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:52 AM

It's not particularly difficult, these days, to put a 24Hz signal on a CRT, usually by multiplying it up to 48 or 72. Most computers can display 72Hz video. Or, if you can get away with shooting that particular scene at 25fps, do it in PAL (or a PAL-rate HD signal.)

 

P


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#4 Robin Phillips

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:13 PM

there is also a sync box IIRC to help deal with this, though it may have become obsolete when cameras became able to do 23.976 vs only 24. 

 

not to say this is ideal, but if you go the VFX route you can always just turn the TV off (or leave it on to get the light spill) and track off the case's corners, comp your feed in, and regrain the element to your film stock at the end of the pipe


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#5 Suzanne Friesen

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:58 AM

Thank you so much everyone, I think I will attempt filming at 23.976 with a 144 shutter and using phase to place the lines. Afterward I'll film "plate" shots of the TV so vfx can place image "behind" the rounded glass if the former method just didn't work out.

 

Thank you again so much for all your help, I feel more confident going into this shot.

Suz


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#6 Robin Phillips

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:40 PM

just remember to NOT put tracking markers on the glass if you want to easily use the reflections. I definitely made that mistake once lol


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#7 James Malamatinas

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:29 AM

I can also second Robin's suggestion. We had the same requirements shooting a film last year and ended up using the sync box in the image attached, my understanding was that it uses magnetic fields from the CRT to correctly sync the image. 

We were shooting 35mm Arri LT but I think the sync box should work with the SR3, we also used a speedbox though to help control the sync and I'm less sure that this would work with an SR3 but worth investigating. 


Steps involved for us were:
 

1. Take Mag OFF!
2. Connect the Speed Box to the cam and the vid sync box (which by this point should be near the CRT)
3. Run the cam.
4. Press Sync Phase (set sync to Manual). 
5. Look through the eye piece till you’ve achieved the result needed!
6. Replace mag and turn over.
 

The box has a red light on it which, when lit, means that the box is in sync. 




 

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  • Sync Box.jpg

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#8 Prashantt Rai

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 07:31 AM

filming PAL TV screens is so easy :-) NTSC not so much I guess.


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