Jump to content


Photo

Director's treatments


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Yash Lucid

Yash Lucid
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 62 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • South Africa

Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:26 PM

Is there any source to find famous director's treatments for TV Commercials and Music Videos?

 

I would love to get an insight to some people's brains and their inner workings.


Edited by Yash Lucid, 20 March 2017 - 06:26 PM.

  • 0


Support Cinematography.com and buy gear using our Amazon links!
PANASONIC LUMIX GH5 Body 4K Mirrorless Camera, 20.3 Megapixels, Dual I.S. 2.0, 4K 422 10-bit, Full Size HDMI Out, 3 Inch Touch LCD, DC-GH5KBODY (USA Black)

#2 Matt Thomas

Matt Thomas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Other
  • Fort Wayne, Indiana

Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:17 AM

Here's a blog post that touches on that. 

 

https://blog.filmsup...go-contreras/18

 

And a workshop that digs into that and some other stuff. 

 

Haven't found any famous treatments though. 


Edited by Matt Thomas, 21 March 2017 - 09:18 AM.

  • 0

#3 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:22 PM

Even if it's an ad for toilet paper, write a treatment that says "My take on this toilet paper will end starvation and bring world peace."  You'll never lose :)


  • 0

#4 George Ebersole

George Ebersole
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1509 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • San Francisco Bay Area

Posted 03 August 2017 - 05:19 PM

Even if it's an ad for toilet paper, write a treatment that says "My take on this toilet paper will end starvation and bring world peace."  You'll never lose :)

 

True.


  • 0

#5 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 731 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

As a cinematographer, the treatments I get when working on commercials are highly detailed.

They are usually broken down in different categories, such as:

- Storyline
- Tone of the piece
- Actors
- Cinematography
- Production Design
- Costumes
- Sound (which includes sound effects and the tone of the voice over if there is any)
- Make up

Sometimes they come with some sort of storyboards but most of the times they don't and the director and myself talk about what we would like to achieve.

There are loads of images and videos on the treatments as references so a normal treatment could have around 40 pages.

When I receive the treatment I start creating a cinematography booklet with the vision I have for the piece and then I send it to the director and we make changes if needed.

When the director and myself are happy with the booklet, I send it over to the crew and HOD's so everybody has more info and they have a clearer vision of the project.

Have a lovely day!
  • 0

#6 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:04 AM


There are loads of images and videos on the treatments as references so a normal treatment could have around 40 pages.

 

It always depresses me that I have to squeeze that many pages out of a 15 second spot.  The whole game sucks.  I need to find a new line of work.  I wish I could just make movies like Brett Ratner is allowed to. :)


  • 0

#7 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 731 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:35 AM

It always depresses me that I have to squeeze that many pages out of a 15 second spot.  The whole game sucks.  I need to find a new line of work.  I wish I could just make movies like Brett Ratner is allowed to. :)


In fairness, the commercials I shoot are always 30" or 45" so 1 page / second which is not that bad, right? :P (joke! Just in case haha)

As a director, don't you like creating treatments? I think that if I were a director I would love to create them because it is the first step to imagine how it will be.

Maybe it is because I work better visually than with words that I like seeing treatments with images and videos rather than 2 pages of writing.

When I make the booklets for directors I really enjoy that part too, I love researching for images that I think might fit the piece and putting them together on a keynote.

Have a lovely day!
  • 0

#8 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

As a director, don't you like creating treatments?

No I don't, and this is why; I'm a naturally enthusiastic person.  I get very excited when I see something I like.  I think endorphins are released when I see a really great composition, for example.  I'm doing a music video right now that I'm really excited about because I think it could be really beautiful.  On the flip side of that coin, I have a very hard time pretending to like something I don't care about.  And if I'm upset, everyone in the room knows it.  It's a flaw of mine.  So, when I have to write a treatment, I have to pretend to really care about Flintstone vitamins.  I have to learn about them.  Then I have to act like I really care about their effect in the world.  It's just not an easy thing for me to do.  But that's the job and I can't afford to give it up.  But I admit that I sometimes wish I did what my brother did and drove a UPS truck.  He makes good money and has good benefits and plays 36 holes on the weekends.  Only instead of playing golf on the weekends, I would probably make short films.  Something I get really excited about.


  • 0

#9 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 731 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:50 PM

I am going to start a business for directors.. It is called: "I will make your treatment"

My agent sent me a treatment not long ago and it was the worst treatment ever, 3 pages with text, 2 images and really badly done.. when I saw that I said: How the hell did this guy got the commercial with a treatment like this one!! :o

I didn't get to shoot it but I am looking forward to seeing the piece as I want to see how that treatment got translated into images! Knowing the cinematographer who shot it.. probably on anamorphic with the Kowas

Justin, you are already a driver!, the mind behind a lot of people who believe in your vision, respect your craft and want to make the most beautiful images ever! And they need to be driven by you!
  • 0

#10 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:13 PM

I will admit I'm not playing ball with the big boys.  If I were getting jobs like this...

 

Lincoln commercial 

 

Then I would be happy to write a 40 page treatment.  Side note, there are guys that have turned "fake excitement" into an art form.  Try listening to Joseph Kahn talk about one of his commercials sometime.  He'll talk about Fruit of the Loom with the enthusiasm of a guy willing to blow all his money on a Power Rangers fan film (which he did).


  • 0

#11 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:08 PM

Justin, you are already a driver!, the mind behind a lot of people who believe in your vision, respect your craft and want to make the most beautiful images ever! And they need to be driven by you!

Okay fine, but I've read director's treatments about tennis shoes written with more passion than Francis Ford Coppola talking about "Apocalypse Now."  At a certain point it's just BS.  

 

Not too long ago a friend of mine did a 48 page treatment for a 15 second Eggo commercial.  27 pages less than the script for "Dunkirk" for a couple shots of a waffle.  And keep in mind, that's off the clock.  We're paid for shoot days not treatments.

 

End rant.


  • 0

#12 Adam Frisch FSF

Adam Frisch FSF
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1973 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, USA

Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:43 PM

Many, many commercial directors have "treatment writers". In fact, I know three people who do that job full time, more or less. That doesn't mean they do all the work and the director just comes in gets the big bucks, it's a collaboration. They email and talk on the phone about the tone, the ideas and what needs to be achieved. Many directors are simply too busy to spend a few days on a treatment when they're shooting. Agencies often want it presented within a short period, and that's where these writers come in and can work in the background. Also, many bigger production companies have researchers that can dig up reference images and mood boards to include in treatment. Not all directors work with treatment writers - some want to be the full author of their work - but quite a few do.


  • 0

#13 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:19 PM

Good point.  If I were directing jobs as big as the ones on your website, I would hire treatment writers for sure.  But unfortunatly like I said earlier... Flintstone vitamins... so I still write my own treatments :)  Maybe one day...


  • 0

#14 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 879 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:38 PM

Nice work on your website Adam, by the way (if I hadn't said it before).  Really fantastic looking images. 


  • 0

#15 Adam Frisch FSF

Adam Frisch FSF
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1973 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, USA

Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

Very kind of you. I think it all sucks, but maybe I'm too close to it?  :)


  • 0

#16 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 731 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:27 AM

Okay fine, but I've read director's treatments about tennis shoes written with more passion than Francis Ford Coppola talking about "Apocalypse Now."  At a certain point it's just BS.  

 

Not too long ago a friend of mine did a 48 page treatment for a 15 second Eggo commercial.  27 pages less than the script for "Dunkirk" for a couple shots of a waffle.  And keep in mind, that's off the clock.  We're paid for shoot days not treatments.

 

End rant.

 

 

I see your point but I don't agree with it! :D Probably because I'm too passionate about everything.. I could be American! haha.

 

Regarding getting paid for shoot days not treatments, I suppose that if you want to pitch for something you have to do some previous work and that is well considered in your fee for the shooting days? 

 

That's the way directors work in Spain! their salary takes into consideration the time and effort they have spent creating the project out of nothing, as opposed as crew, who are paid recce days and shooting days no matter the time you have spent during prep.

 

As per treatment writers, the guys behind Twin have an amazing podcast on The Wandering DP website where they talk about that and they say that the reason behind that is that, as Adam says, they are too busy shooting to create treatments within the hours that agencies want them that they started working with treatment writers and they like it. 

 

http://wanderingdp.c...pisode-59-twin/

 

Have a lovely day!


  • 0



CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

CineLab

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Tai Audio

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Glidecam