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K3 Not keeping loop. Moves up.


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#1 Robino Jones

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:57 PM

I can't figure this out, the loop keeps going up. 

 

See video for the issue - if anyone has any tips on solving this issue please let me know.

 

Password: loop

 

..and PS, I know the film is not facing the right side - just test roll, i don't have a take up reel yet.

 

Thanks very much. 


Edited by Robino Jones, 05 September 2018 - 03:59 PM.

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#2 Robino Jones

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:27 PM

...Update

 

If I roll the film around the pole that used to release the loop former,  the upper loop sticks and bottom is held by that pole. It works and I checked the film for scratches, can't see any.. 

 

I'm not liking this workaround - anybody seen this before?

 

See pic for loop workaround.

 

IMG_0625.jpg


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#3 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:04 PM

That workaround is no good.. it seems you have an issue with the claw pulldown, so just pulling the film around a roller from the sprocket to keep the loop won't necessarily time the film movement with the shutter. You'll most likely end up with smeared images.

 

The reason the loop is moving up is because the sprocket keeps advancing the film, but the intermittent pulldown is missing a perf and not keeping the film moving through the gate at the same rate.

 

You need to examine the claw and gate to see why the film is not being properly advanced by the claw. It could be that the claw is somehow not aligned with the perfs, or it's worn and slipping, or the gate is contaminated and making the film stick, or the pressure plate is not closing properly to press the film against the gate and allow the claw to penetrate the perf, or some other issue like this that makes the claw skip a perf.


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#4 Robino Jones

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:46 AM

 

The reason the loop is moving up is because the sprocket keeps advancing the film, but the intermittent pulldown is missing a perf and not keeping the film moving through the gate at the same rate.

 

Yes that's exactly what's happening. I saw this by advancing manually and it skips a perf here and there.

 

 

You need to examine the claw and gate to see why the film is not being properly advanced by the claw. It could be that the claw is somehow not aligned with the perfs, or it's worn and slipping, or the gate is contaminated and making the film stick, or the pressure plate is not closing properly to press the film against the gate and allow the claw to penetrate the perf, or some other issue like this that makes the claw skip a perf.

 

I took the gate out and cleaned it very well, the claw is moving inside a hole in the gate and it is secured by 5 screws with not much play to adjust it so I'm not sure how else the actual gate could be the culprit. Maybe it is I don't have experience with this camera.

 

I'll have to check alignment and pressure plate.


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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:14 AM

First, you’re having the film laced up the wrong way. The lighter side (dull amber) must face the aperture, the shiny black side is the backing. The stock should be wound EIB, that means Emulsion In, winding B. B wind means that the holes of single-row perforated stock are on the right hand side when the spool is held vertically and the stock coming off downward near you.

 

Second, learn that those Soviet cameras were slammed together by workers not well trained, mostly less-well payed women. Many examples have issues. Give your camera to the hands of a camera technician. Los Angeles should offer enough in that respect. Cheers


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#6 Mark Dunn

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:26 AM

This isn't the whole problem, but check that you have the sprocket guides closed. They should click into place.


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#7 Robino Jones

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:15 AM

First, you’re having the film laced up the wrong way. The lighter side (dull amber) must face the aperture, the shiny black side is the backing. The stock should be wound EIB, that means Emulsion In, winding B. B wind means that the holes of single-row perforated stock are on the right hand side when the spool is held vertically and the stock coming off downward near you.

 

 

I explained that in my original post.

 

 

This isn't the whole problem, but check that you have the sprocket guides closed. They should click into place.

 

 

The guides are closed and clicked - I really think the issue is with the claw as Dom said but that's beyond home repair (for me) at this point - I'll try to find someone to look at in in the Los Angeles area  - if anyone has tech suggestions let me know - thanks everyone.


Edited by Robino Jones, 06 September 2018 - 10:16 AM.

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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:53 PM

Presumably you've tried it with the film in the correct wind. Unlikely, but it's still possible the emulsion is sticking on the pressure plate.


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#9 Robino Jones

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:55 PM

Presumably you've tried it with the film in the correct wind. Unlikely, but it's still possible the emulsion is sticking on the pressure plate.

 

Thanks Mark - That's a good guess and I tried it the correct way as well - it still is loosing the loop either way.


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#10 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:13 PM

So yea, correct wind would be step one.

I've seen this happen with my K3, for some reason the spring that holds the pressure plate in position was super weak and the pressure plate would simply wobble all over the place and not keep the film in place. With a slight change to the position of the little cup that holds the spring, I put a tiny bit more pressure on the pressure plate and BAM problem went away.

You can always bring it by, I'm pretty good with the K3, I got mine working really well.
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#11 Robino Jones

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:12 PM

I've seen this happen with my K3, for some reason the spring that holds the pressure plate in position was super weak and the pressure plate would simply wobble all over the place and not keep the film in place. With a slight change to the position of the little cup that holds the spring, I put a tiny bit more pressure on the pressure plate and BAM problem went away.

You can always bring it by, I'm pretty good with the K3, I got mine working really well.

 

Thanks Tyler - I just tried moving the pin in and added more pressure, tried different levels of pressure but the claw is still is skipping some perfs, Maybe I should bring it - i'll call you.


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#12 Webster C

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 04:40 PM

Off topic - but Robino I love your Monsterpalooza 35mm film. So glad you did that.


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#13 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:20 PM

Thanks Tyler - I just tried moving the pin in and added more pressure, tried different levels of pressure but the claw is still is skipping some perfs, Maybe I should bring it - i'll call you.


Yea I can fix that in a jiff, I'm sure it's something silly.
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