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WTB Arriflex D-21

Arriflex D21

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#1 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:44 AM

Hello,

 

I wondering to buy Arriflex D21 if you have one to sell, please contact me!

I was looking in ebay but at this moment there is no D21 camera.

 

My location is: Lithuania country.

Email: benvenutas@gmail.com

 

Thanks.

 

Looking for news!


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#2 David Peterson

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:35 AM

When I've very rarely seen them for sale, it felt like it made no sense at all to buy a D21 at those prices. 

Because for roughly the same price you could buy the well regarded Sony F35 that has an enthusatic following on the 2ndhand market over at dvxuser who can support you on your journey. 

Or  you could for only a couple of thousand more buy an ARRI ALEXA Classic which is much much better than D21 .


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#3 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:59 AM

Thanks for reply.

Basically my budget is near 4-5 k Eur.

As I saw in google old ARRIFLEX d21 posts they keep quite similar price. Besides i like D21 idea of mechanical shutter and sensor which is emulates film style image.

 

Of course I think that real film is best technology to capture light but it's too pricey for me. So it is very interesting to me how Arri build they D21 camera with unique sensor quality. Isn't it ?


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#4 David Peterson

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:46 AM

Besides i like D21 idea of mechanical shutter and sensor which is emulates film style image.

Then you'll like the Sony F35!

http://www.dvxuser.c...84-Sony-F35-F65

Because as much as the D21 is a pain to use, the F35 is relatively easier.... or at least it has a much more "modern" support thanks to the community of users. 

And the F35 is around the same price, if  not cheaper than a D21 would be. 

And I see 5 euro is around US$7K, you're only roughly another US$1K more away from buying an Arri Alexa Classic! (which goes for around $10K, but $9K is very common, and even $8K is not that unusual to easily see listed now and then) And an ARRI ALEXA Classic is much more userfriendly by a large margin, and in higher demand. As is of course the sensor which is the "industry standard" and still hotly desire even today in 2018

Although I'd honestly suggest a person buys a modern URSA Mini Pro or Kinefinity Terra 4K instead. 


Edited by David Peterson, 12 September 2018 - 10:46 AM.

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#5 Robin Phillips

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:28 PM

I too highly recommend looking at the F35. I own one, and its alot easier to record data from (as well as has actual current recording support from Convergent Design via their odyssey 7q+). Its also a bit smaller, its global shutter is spectacular, and for my money looks more like film than the D21. It also upscales to 4k really well when you use Ultraprimes (F35 sensor is above 5k, resolves in camera to 1080 444 12 bit)

 

You also dont have to worry about needing the mechanical spare parts for the sweeping shutter on the D21 (I think its mostly 435 parts but not sure).  

 

Thanks for reply.

Basically my budget is near 4-5 k Eur.

As I saw in google old ARRIFLEX d21 posts they keep quite similar price. Besides i like D21 idea of mechanical shutter and sensor which is emulates film style image.

 

Of course I think that real film is best technology to capture light but it's too pricey for me. So it is very interesting to me how Arri build they D21 camera with unique sensor quality. Isn't it 


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#6 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 02:16 PM

Thanks guys! Yes you all right. I know that D21 is not user friendly regarding recording and support in nowadays. But strictly my budget is to low for F35 or Alexa Classic. Regarding Black Magic yes it might be option.

 

But for now i want to try find D21 with reasonable price.

 

I keep in mind F35 since it's still quite good solution at my situation.


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#7 David Peterson

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:10 PM

I suspect once you consider the entire budget, there is not much difference at all between a D21 and a F35, the F35 might even come in overall cheaper. 

And what are you getting it for?

If it is any kind whatsoever of paid work, then the extra grand or so for an Arri Alexa Classic is so teeny small that it is nothing at all and should be a no brainer to buy instead. 

And if it is just for personal use? I think you're doing serious serious serious overkill here! And a BMPCC4K would be an awesome choice instead. 


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#8 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:34 AM

Correct me if I wrong.

 

D21:

 

PROS

1) mechanical mirror shutter - no shutter artifacts, different motion in image?

2) optical viewfinder - zero delay, works without power and shows an image area outside the primary image

3) noiseless cooling system - good for external sound

4) 4:3 aspect ratio sensor - anamorphic 2.40:1 possibility

5) 2k ARRI RAW

6) cheap?

 

CONS

1) lack of sensor sensitivity 11 stops

2) external recorder

3) not user friendly, big and heavy

4) old, lack of community support?

 

can you describe F35?


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#9 David Peterson

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 08:03 AM

What are you getting it for? As on commercial/paid work it makes no sense at all. 

And for low low budget shoots it makes not much sense either, as you'll lack the crew and budget for the proper support it needs on set.

 

Shooting at 200 ASA is a big downside.  Doesn't record sound internally. Dynamic range is worse (which is kinda one of the main big appeals of buying an Arri Alexa Classic in the first place! So what is the point again of the D21??).

 

There is no internal media whatsoever, what modern day recorder can you use? Odyssey I bet is your best choice, however don't expect to record D21's particular flavor of arriraw with it (although I could be wrong), but the Odyssey can do 444 HD instead. 

 

The D21 was never that popular, it sold for only what, a year or two until the Alexa came out? The D21 was more like a beta camera for Arri on the path to making the Alexa. 

 

Personally I'd rather get a secondhand URSA Mini 4.6K and a BMPCC4K , you could probably pick up both together for a similar price as one D21!  

Have you ever shot with a RED ONE M? (not MX... the M! ha)
If that felt like a breeze to shoot with, easy peasy, then well I suppose if you saw a dirt cheap D21 for perhaps US$2K or some such ridiculous price then you might want to give it a try?


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#10 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 08:49 AM

I would like to buy Arri D21 only for artistic reasons.

Personal i hate digital image. And hate all digital commercial poop. I don't like super clean aesthetics. It would be best for me to go real FILM but this costs even more.

So that's why i like D21 because of subtle transformation between FILM and digital. Of course it can be smart ARRI marketing trick. But as far as i know D21 was created to emulate film style image as close as possible, including DR, NOISE, MOTION aspects.

 

It would be great if you help me to find recorder witch can handle ARRIRAW instead of criticize me.


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#11 David Peterson

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:33 AM

You say "artistic reasons", but unless you're going to hang it on a wall then it must be serving some purpose? I'm guessing here, low budget short films. 

If so then I reckon you'll get a much more "film like image" if you shot with even an original BMPCC (can be picked up for only a few hundred bucks on eBay) and put the rest of your time, efforts, and money into lighting the scenes and color grading. 

Remember that BMD with the BMPCC was also aiming to emulate a film/ARRI look as well, while the D21 was merely a later stage beta prototype in the earliest of earliest days of digital filmmaking for ARRI as they were fumbling around to try and figure things out before they finally produced the classic ARRI ALEXA.

And I'm not at all trying to personally criticize you, I've never done that, rather I'm trying to walk you through all the pros and cons.


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#12 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:39 AM

BMPCC has a rolling shutter. Personally, i have a6300 and it's grate camera with very pleasant 4k quality.

 

Have you ever tested personally D21 ?

 

I don't care how D21 is not user friendly. What i like most is image quality comparing to 35mm film. Second thing is price.

 

BlackMagic is very nice brand but simply image looks like plastic for me. Just look at this peace the motion, texture, and DR is superb. Low light example -

 

I dont know how i should express in words but it is smth. special in ARRI d21 image. Of course it is same shittyy plastic but not as far as BM.

 

David, can you help me find recorder for D21 which can handle ARRIRAW? 


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#13 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 12:49 PM

I have shot with the D-21! HA!

Ok the D21 was a very nice camera. But; there are 2 main issues I can see using it.

It is heavy-- VERY HEAVY, which, back then wasn't as big of a problem as it is today-- but we've tended so lighweight these days that even getting tripods to support it will be very expensive (you're in O'Connor territory here).

It also is 24V so you're looking at block-batteries, again, rather expensive. j

 

As for recording; we did it ProRes to a KiPro back when that was a new thing. No need for ArriRAW ,honestly.

If you wanted RAW you should look for a an Old Codex or, I think it was the called an Si or something similar-- but honestly, just pop a question to Arri about what recorders can handle it-- there should be a few around.

 

If you want it, go for it, hell why not. It's a bit of a bear but I liked it.


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#14 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:05 PM

So it's 2018... and where I hate to say it, but 1080p acquisition is kinda dead. Spending thousands of dollars on a camera system that's already very out of date, just doesn't seem very logical. Where both the D21 and F35 are excellent cameras, every penny you put into making them work, is being thrown away in my opinion. Both are very heavy cameras that require a substantial support system to use; IE: expensive tripod heads. They both have Super 35mm imagers and PL mount, making lenses cost quite a bit. They both require external recorders to use, which again costs quite a bit. Then you've gotta deal with power, neither has any on-board power solution, so you're carrying around a battery belt or battery brick everywhere you go. Honestly, at that point you might as well be shooting on film because all the benefits of digital cameras; -light weight, small, higher ISO- go out the window with these two. For instance, my Aaton 3 perf Super 35mm film camera weighs 2 pounds less than the D21 fully built, with onboard battery and film.. plus cost me around the same amount. At least if I ever wanna sell my Aaton, I can get every penny I put into it, on the back end.

If you don't have access to a bunch of PL mount cine lenses, a very expensive tripod and a decent portable power solution, these cameras are worthless to you.

This is why when I went buying a digital cinema camera, I focused on accessory cost first; Lenses, support, battery solution, these are very expensive things. Then you add the simplicity; raw recording, pro res, excellent dynamic range and decent image of the Blackmagic Pocket and Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k and it's a win win. Both cameras can accept EOS mount lenses, both cameras have battery solutions which are not expensive. Both cameras are pretty light for what they are and best of all, are super easy to use. Yes the UMP is a bit out of your price range, but I've been seeing them go for around $6500 USD with a battery solution on ebay, which is pretty good.

I understand people's complaints with the blackmagic products, but they do fulfill a niche for cinematographers who are interested in creating a true 12 bit 444 image with a very straight-forward workflow from camera through post. Plus with the new 4k pocket cinema camera, you get 4k @ 60fps + double ISO and 25,000 max ISO, for $1295 USD, that's unheard of. The next best thing would be the Panasonic GH5 or Sony A7SIII and both are $500 + more dollars.

Sorry to try and talk you out of your decision, but I think a lot of people are drawn towards these older cameras not understanding the over-all cost to make them work. They see "inexpensive professional camera" and think, that's all they need, but reality is very different. I've been down the road, I know exactly how much it costs and when you're done, it will be in the $10k range all said and done, for a camera system that has literally zero value. At least the 4k Pocket Cinema camera has value and it's an expensive entry level product.
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#15 David Peterson

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:44 PM

BMPCC has a rolling shutter. 

 

 

 

The objection to rolling shutter seems to be a common theme I only ever ever see on forums. 

If this truly was a valid universal objection (rather than being a very niche case) then we'd see the Sony F55 (or the original BMPC4K / UM4K or the AJA CION) being used 100,000 time more often! But we don't.

 

It is far far more important to thinking about to what degree does it have a rolling shutter? A really slow one like on the old Canon 5D mk2? Well yes, I agree, that could be objectionable! Or does it have a very fast rolling shutter like the Samsung NX1 has in 1080? 

Those are two very different extremes, from cameras which both are "rolling shutter".

 

 

 

 

I dont know how i should express in words but it is smth. special in ARRI d21 image. Of course it is same shittyy plastic but not as far as BM.

 

 

 

 

Another common problem is thinking they're judging just the camera itself from a film piece, when in reality they're actually judging much much more than that! (the lighting team, the set designer, the color grader, the MUA, and more)

 

The leads to possible errors in judgement when looking at footage from low end cheap cameras (like the BMPCC) which has a tonne of clueless no budget amateurs pumping out bad looking footage vs looking at high end expensive cameras (like the D21) which of course usually only has a team polished professionals using it. So in the end, are you really fairly comparing apples vs apples?

 

 

btw, those two examples you shared, the first one I felt suffered from its limited DR (not greatly, but you could tell), the second "low light" example I bet had a tonne of lighting involved! 

 

 

Personally, i have a6300 and it's grate camera with very pleasant 4k quality.

 

 

Have you shot with a RED ONE M? (or even any other large large camera like the ARRI ALEXA Classic or Sony F65 or etc)

People might say "oh the size doesn't bother me", but they've only shot with a small mirrorless/DSLR, then actually using a big camera with its extra weight, extra support gear, extra powering needs, and extra COSTS!! (all these costs much more than the extra surrounding needs of a mirrorless camera) all ends up coming as a big shock to them. 

 

You'd go further putting that €5K budget (btw... we never clarified, was that only for the camera itself? Or is your total budget for all your gear? As if the latter, then you'll find your budget falling very very very far short!!!) purely into lighting, camera accessories (in the broadest sense, it is a money blackhole!), and audio and sticking with your a6300 for now to make the absolute most with it rather than getting a D21.

 

Or if you must must change cameras (fair enough! I'd be tempted to do so too. I never thought the a6300 was a particularly good camera release by Sony) then as well as the BMPCC4K there are a tonne of other exciting new stills cameras released which are pushing high the limits of their capabilities. Like the Panasonic GH5S (like the older GH5, but even better!) or the new Nikon Z6 (not much footage out of it yet, but I expect it could be even better than the Nikon Z7. Plus cheaper!) or the Fujifilm X-T3:
 

 

https://www.fdtimes..../fujifilm-x-t3/

 

https://www.eoshd.co...o-the-japanese/

https://www.newsshoo...-10-bit-output/


Edited by David Peterson, 19 September 2018 - 10:51 PM.

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#16 David Peterson

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:08 PM

So it's 2018... and where I hate to say it, but 1080p acquisition is kinda dead. Spending thousands of dollars on a camera system that's already very out of date, just doesn't seem very logical. Where both the D21 and F35 are excellent cameras, every penny you put into making them work, is being thrown away in my opinion. Both are very heavy cameras that require a substantial support system to use; IE: expensive tripod heads. They both have Super 35mm imagers and PL mount, making lenses cost quite a bit. They both require external recorders to use, which again costs quite a bit. Then you've gotta deal with power, neither has any on-board power solution, so you're carrying around a battery belt or battery brick everywhere you go. Honestly, at that point you might as well be shooting on film because all the benefits of digital cameras; -light weight, small, higher ISO- go out the window with these two. For instance, my Aaton 3 perf Super 35mm film camera weighs 2 pounds less than the D21 fully built, with onboard battery and film.. plus cost me around the same amount. At least if I ever wanna sell my Aaton, I can get every penny I put into it, on the back end.

If you don't have access to a bunch of PL mount cine lenses, a very expensive tripod and a decent portable power solution, these cameras are worthless to you.

This is why when I went buying a digital cinema camera, I focused on accessory cost first; Lenses, support, battery solution, these are very expensive things. Then you add the simplicity; raw recording, pro res, excellent dynamic range and decent image of the Blackmagic Pocket and Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k and it's a win win. Both cameras can accept EOS mount lenses, both cameras have battery solutions which are not expensive. Both cameras are pretty light for what they are and best of all, are super easy to use. Yes the UMP is a bit out of your price range, but I've been seeing them go for around $6500 USD with a battery solution on ebay, which is pretty good.

I understand people's complaints with the blackmagic products, but they do fulfill a niche for cinematographers who are interested in creating a true 12 bit 444 image with a very straight-forward workflow from camera through post. Plus with the new 4k pocket cinema camera, you get 4k @ 60fps + double ISO and 25,000 max ISO, for $1295 USD, that's unheard of. The next best thing would be the Panasonic GH5 or Sony A7SIII and both are $500 + more dollars.

Sorry to try and talk you out of your decision, but I think a lot of people are drawn towards these older cameras not understanding the over-all cost to make them work. They see "inexpensive professional camera" and think, that's all they need, but reality is very different. I've been down the road, I know exactly how much it costs and when you're done, it will be in the $10k range all said and done, for a camera system that has literally zero value. At least the 4k Pocket Cinema camera has value and it's an expensive entry level product.

Tyler nailed and expanded on points I only touched on before. 

Specifically just the share amount of extra costs you can run yourself into. (even with small mirrorless cameras, the camera body is but a small cost portion of your total well rounded camera kit. But it gets much much worse as you get bigger in body size!)

I own still a Sony PMW-F3 myself, and I got that after having only owned smaller mirrorless cameras. And yeah, the extra costs on top for everything else was significant and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole at times in trying to figure out how to equip/build out the PMW-F3, the camera itself was but the start! And the Sony PMW-F3 body is very lightweight/small/easy to use compared to a D21!

If I could go back in time, would I still do it all over again and get myself a Sony F3? For sure! But I do wish I knew then what I know now, I'd have done a few things differently.

 

I'd even still recommend the Sony PMW-F3 to people today (because it makes a very nice image, and while it is "big" it is still very small for what it does and is much more user friendly than many other cameras of its era such as the RED ONE), doubly especially so because their prices have fallen through the floor! (it is a very underappreciated camera)

You can buy the F3 body for sub $1K
And the external recorders (which used to be very expensive! Heck, just the RGB 444 S-log upgrade key was initially thousands and thousands of dollars!!) can be purchased new for sub $500!

Sony itself marketed the F3 as "a mini F35", and others favorably rated the F3 back then as even "a mini ALEXA". If I'm just shooting in HD (and not 4K) then the F3 might still be my favorite choice of camera to shoot with from Sony.


Edited by David Peterson, 19 September 2018 - 11:10 PM.

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#17 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:01 AM

I already have a chance to buy a ARRI D21 package from one source. With all necessary components, to shoot except lens for 3700K Euro. Package came with ATOMOS BLADE recorder.  I think this is very reasonable price for ready to shoot package.

 

What i need most after buying is lens and tripod.

 

Lens - for start i can choose rehoused Carl Zeis or Helios, Jupiter PL mount lens for 200-500 Eur price range. Or i can buy XEEN 35mm 1.5F for 1600k eur, maybe Zeiss CP2 for 4,5k eur.

 

Camera will be use mainly for independent film and art projects not for commercials.

 

I love sony a6300 camera. It is a great beginner digital photography and videography camera for very good price. With this camera i was shooting and still shoot a lot.

For example this shitty plastic peace:  these beautiful characters was produced by my wife :)

 

Also i have one short movie which was produced few years ago and was awarded by Lithuania ministry of culture :)

 

At this summer i was shooting full length experimental movie with a6300 :)) and  it was really challenging and i think i exceed all a6300 8 bit prospects.

 

What i need most from my new future camera is uniqueness in technological image quality as much as possible. As i mentioned i want to run from plastic BM style to more natural digital motion style. And think that D21 is all about that. Any better suggestion for 3.7k euro ready to shoot pack ? Forget BM brand. I want technological drama. Just look at D21 the design itself it looks like ancient film production tool :))

 

At the end of the day there is no matter what camera you use it is all about idea, light, scenography, etc. But i have non logical inner opposition regarding all these user friendly BM, GH5 cameras. I want real technology drama. Just think about D21 spinning mechanical mirror shutter it is wonderful and so so beautiful idea:) I just love that camera you know you can't search for a logic in love.

 

Talking about my background i finish Vilnius Academy Of Fine arts industrial product design department master course. That's why i love D21 not only for image production but as design product at that time.

 

You can check my facebook profile "Andrius Zemaitis" go to timeline photos and you understand what image style i mostly like. All these photos was captured by digital a6300 :) Of course it is shitty photography but it was my beginners passion in cinematography sphere.


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#18 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:40 AM

....i have non logical inner opposition regarding all these user friendly BM, GH5 cameras. I want real technology drama. Just think about D21 spinning mechanical mirror shutter it is wonderful and so so beautiful idea:) I just love that camera you know you can't search for a logic in love....

 

I understand and sympathise. But, why can't you shoot on film. If you want to explore film you may have to separate yourself from common notions about what a movie is, become more adventurous. How long does it really have to be? How much does it really have to cost? Why be governed by the norms. A very short piece of film that is exquisite art may be more meaningfull, later, than a frantically achieved feature.  


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#19 Andrius Zemaitis

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 03:53 AM

Yes Gregg you are right. My heart is burning with passion regarding real Film. I very like one German cinematographer Fred Kelemen. He is a main cinematographer almost for all Bella Tar movies, which is super phenomenal at these days. Film is very special technology because of how cellulose is interact with light. It is a real chemical process and it is so beautiful to watch how light appears on screen it has a very subtle glowing. It almost like watch ink motion in the water but at very quick speed - light speed. While digital is very good at details but there is no light the light in digital just a white color which is not moving. If you watch carefully  how appears light in film you notice that there is subtle non pronounced vibration which produced by not stable cellulose chemistry. While digital is dead you get the light in sensor and sensor sees it as a white color which is captured in still photo no light motion only white color gradient in still photos.

 

Also the film produce natural texture grain which is phenomenal if you want to express aesthetics of nature. What we have in digital? :) Oh yeah imagine cinematographic style of plastic world of dead nature i will choose digital technology. But you see nowadays we have lack of physical contact between matter and consciousness. Every aspect of our life goes digital. That's why i like D21 because of it's subtle transformation between digital and film. Of course at the end of the day i get dead light aesthetics in D21 but machine itself was created to emulate FILM as close as possible so it has my sympathy.

 

If i can i really want to go film but at this moment i cant. I have personal workflow specifics. I like to shoot multiple times to get a perfect shot. So digital is better at this case. But in the future i will definitely try film.


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#20 David Peterson

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 05:00 AM

I already have a chance to buy a ARRI D21 package from one source. With all necessary components, to shoot except lens for 3700K Euro. Package came with ATOMOS BLADE recorder.  I think this is very reasonable price for ready to shoot package.

 

 

Ah interesting, so 5K Euro is your total budget?

When they say "all necessary components", what exactly do they mean? For instance how many batteries and which batteries?

It is very easy to see another grand plus to blow by in a blink of an eye.

Oh, and also the fact it comes with an Atomos Blade should be a matter of concern you should investigate?
Because WHICH Blade recorder is it? If the Ninja Blade, well that is useless to you. 

Assuming it is the Samurai Blade (which I own two of!), you need to ask your ask yourself if:

 

a) it works? (as I think people back in the day did mainly dual link SDI from the D21? Which the Samurai Blade can't do. But perhaps single SDI still can give you a full 10bit 422 at least, I am guessing this. But it is something I'd 110% want to double check before buying one)

B) is this a compromise you're ok making? Personally I was fine with choosing a Samurai Blade to record from my PMW-F3 and miss out on 444, as I felt ProRes HQ would still give me 99% of what I want. However a person who has their heart set on a D21 sounds like someone who obsesses over these 1% differences and wouldn't be willing to settle for such a "major" compromise in its color output?

 

What i need most after buying is lens and tripod.

 

Lens - for start i can choose rehoused Carl Zeis or Helios, Jupiter PL mount lens for 200-500 Eur price range. Or i can buy XEEN 35mm 1.5F for 1600k eur, maybe Zeiss CP2 for 4,5k eur.

 

 

Have you looked at prices of quality tripods? You'll be in for a shock. Remember you'll need at least a 100mm bowl for the head in my opinion (although the usual set up with a D21 back in the day would have used an even bigger sized tripod head! And yeah sure, there are some beefy 75mm ones you could get away with)

 

But with only a tripod, your shocks could come off as static and boring. The other support gear for movement goes up a lot in price too!

As for lenses, yes I know about those. The Helios/Jupiter/etc are rather limited and have their own certain look which you might not always desire. Not been a fan of XEENs. And the CP.2? Yeah, the CP.2 is one of the most popular low budget PL lenses there are, but even a small lens set would massively blow your budget!

Even a very very small three lens kit of say 20mm + 40mm + 80mm I'd say is just too small! But on an ultra low budget you could get away with in a pinch if forced to. But I'd say a five plus lens kit of primes is a better target to aim for as a minimum

 

What i need most from my new future camera is uniqueness in technological image quality as much as possible. As i mentioned i want to run from plastic BM style to more natural digital motion style. And think that D21 is all about that. Any better suggestion for 3.7k euro ready to shoot pack ? Forget BM brand. I want technological drama. Just look at D21 the design itself it looks like ancient film production tool  :))

 

 

Nothing non-plastic about BM! It depends a lot on the user. There are many beautiful pieces shot with BMD cameras, have a browse through these for instance:

https://vimeo.com/se...c&staffpicked=1

 

https://vimeo.com/ch...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/ch...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/gr...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/gr...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/gr...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/gr...s/format:detail

 

https://vimeo.com/gr...s/format:detail

 

And if I wasn't going with a Blackmagic, or a GH5S/Z6/X-T3/etc, then I'd very likely go with a Sony PMW-F3 (of course, I own one now!) or there is footage I've seen which makes me feel the Sony FS700 4K raw has a lot of potential too for its very low price. (US$1.5K for its body, then another $1K ish or so for a recorder)

https://vimeo.com/se...0&staffpicked=1

Check out the footage this guy has shot with a FS700 paired with an Odysessy for its 4K raw (well, or ProRes HQ, which he does mostly it seems):

https://vimeo.com/pa...ormat:thumbnail

 

 

 

At the end of the day there is no matter what camera you use it is all about idea, light, scenography, etc. But i have non logical inner opposition regarding all these user friendly BM, GH5 cameras. I want real technology drama. Just think about D21 spinning mechanical mirror shutter it is wonderful and so so beautiful idea:) I just love that camera you know you can't search for a logic in love.


That it is non-logical, that I will not argue against!! :-o

Have you considered the Digital Bolex D16 or the AJA CION??

I'm not a fan of either of these cameras myself, as I feel like there exist better options. But for you... I suspect you'll find them worth at least investigating? As they're both niche and very unique camera with their own look that some people are a fan of, definitely living outside the mainstream!


Edited by David Peterson, 20 September 2018 - 05:04 AM.

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