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#21 Curt Massof

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:09 PM

Seems like your ISO was too low for your lighting, causing you to open up that lens all the way. It's a decent lens but is soft wide open. Try lighting for a T2 or higher. 

 

Check out this article on NATIVE ISO for Canon DSLR. Talks about noise and dynamic range for the Canon line.

http://shootinthesho...slr-native-iso/

 

Also, your talent is sitting basically in front of a plain wall which makes the image look flat. Try a different angle to add some depth to your scene.

Maybe show a side table with a practical lamp to add interest and motivate a source for you other light.

 

Just some thoughts.


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#22 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:39 PM

I guess my problem is that I only recently started getting into this stuff. My first major purchase was a couple lenses. And Ive been building from there.

I guess I can compare it to my other hobbyhunting and fishing. One of my bows that I hunt with is maybe 200 bucks. Bare. But I have a 240.00 sight on it. I have another bow that probably cost me 1,800 bucks. Its how you use it...as the saying goes.

I use the cheap lights because, apparently, you can still pull off a decent lighting set up with them. People do it. Im just trying to figure out how.

So if I shoot with the aperture at 4.5 or whatever, and it darkens the image, just add more light? The darker the area, the potential for more noise, no?

Maybe I can buy better bulbs? Brighter? I dont really see how the cost of the actual housing would affect quality.

I dont do this for a living so I have to buy the stuff I need a little at a time...as I can afford it.

 

I'm not an expert on fishing or hunting, but I guess that in that case, you need to buy a tool and of course, that tool can have different qualities.

 

With filming or recording, is better imagine a chain, and you need to know that when the chain is "weak" in some link, the rest of them get weaker too.

You buyed a really good lens, which was a great because you probably use it for years. I'm not saying that you make a mistake (and you already buy it, so...) but for now, I urge you to spend in the first links of the chain.

 

It's a little bit abstract in filmmaking that in audio recording, but I'm gonna try to explain the chain so you can understand me better (also, as you probably already noticed, english is not my main language, so sorry is some term looks weird to you). I'm not going to talk about capture audio for the film, because is just complicate things, but audio in film has his own chain to.

 

 

 

The filmmaking chain

 

 

You need something to tell (not necessary a script, but something that speak for it self, something interest to capture on film).

 

If that is a story, it have to be a good one (a good script).

 

If the story has people, you need good actors.

 

If the story need a place to be told, you need a good place (with good props, etc.)

 

(TO ALL THE THINGS ABOVE, YOU DON'T NEED ANY FILM GEAR)

 

You need that your subject (whatever it is) is properly light, because film works with light (film or a sensor, it's the same). You can use free light (from the sun, from a street lamp, from location) but you still probably need some lights gear to get the look that you need.

 

You need a lens to decide what "part" of the scene you are going to "capture" (for example, a tele or a prime, and is not the same 20mm that 50mm).

 

You need a camera that let you decide how your gonna capture. The frame rate, the ISO, etc.

 

You need a sensor (or film) to finally capture the light and transform (in a DLSR case) in information (a binary system of 0 and 1).

 

Later (after probably work with your material in a edition software) you need to render that information in a video file.

 

And finally upload it in some place which probably "eat" a chunk of the information of the render video.

 

 

It's a simplistic way of see it, I know, and maybe I'm forgetting some links in the chain. But my point is, in this chain, when you lose quality you can't get it back later. You have a good lens (you probably gonna need more than one but that's another story). Now, if I was you, I'll invest my money in the first links, because it doesn't matter the lens or the camera if the scene is poorly light. The same, you can shoot in a professional studio, with great gear and lights, but if you don't have any to say or you have bad actors, it doesn't matter.

The good news is that good lights are a lot cheaper that a good lens or camera, so I don't think you have problem to fix that part.

 

 

If you watch filmriot, you can notice that they take really serious the lighting, even if the use really cheap low edge lamps. The first episodes where filmmed with a really basic DLSR, but the lighting job is still great. I also recommend Filmmaker IQ, is a really great channel if you want to learn in more deep about how a camera and a lens works. One of the best exponent of the "youtube university" as you call it.

 

 

 

Hope I make myself clear and you find the information useful.

 

Bye!


Edited by Giacomo Girolamo, 14 May 2018 - 01:49 PM.

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#23 Justin Oakley

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:41 PM

Not sure what specific look Im going for. I guess dark, sinister, but not overly horrific. As far as color, Im not really a fan of really warm colors...especially indoors. So Im partial to cooler colors...but I dont necessarily want it to look like somebody sitting in a dark room with moonlight leaking through the windows. If that makes any sense.

Im new. I dont really know how to articulate this.

Ok, brief synopsis here: Im planning on making a short with my fiancé. In this scene, she is seated on the couch, staring blankly at the tv. The living room is lit like a normal room I guess. But Im going for dramatic...plenty of contrast is nice as long as I can sort out this ridiculous noise issue.

Its a transition from fantasy (violent murder) to reality. She has just dragged my body out of the tub and to the bottom of the stairs. She sits, exhausted, detached. I walk in the door. The dream stops and reality picks up in real time. I want the mood to be heavy. Uncomfortable.

Also, shes a redhead. So more light or less? I have no idea.
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#24 Justin Oakley

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:47 PM

Seems like your ISO was too low for your lighting, causing you to open up that lens all the way. It's a decent lens but is soft wide open. Try lighting for a T2 or higher. 
 
Check out this article on NATIVE ISO for Canon DSLR. Talks about noise and dynamic range for the Canon line.
http://shootinthesho...slr-native-iso/
 
Also, your talent is sitting basically in front of a plain wall which makes the image look flat. Try a different angle to add some depth to your scene.
Maybe show a side table with a practical lamp to add interest and motivate a source for you other light.
 
Just some thoughts.


So go a little wider with the shot to catch the paintings that are on the wall (and out of frame)? Move them down maybe?

There is a table by the door with a little lamp on it. And theres a 6 lamp right by the couch...again, out of frame. Move them?

Its just an apartment. Not super tiny, but tight enough.

And thank you.

Thanks to all of you.
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#25 Curt Massof

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:56 PM

Maybe lower the camera a bit and move it to the left (or right depending) so the lamp next to the couch shows and maybe the wall paintings show a bit. It will make the wall change distance from your talent and add some depth to the shot.

Maybe even move the couch at a 90* angle so you see into the room behind talent. This allows for scene decoration and background practicals or light to add mood and texture.

This can also help motivate the lighting on your talent. 

 

Of course all of this depends on whether it actually makes sense for the scene and It might not matter as much if the area is established in a wide shot. 

I was just suggesting ways to get some separation from your subject and add interest to the scene based on this one shot and angle.

 

So go a little wider with the shot to catch the paintings that are on the wall (and out of frame)? Move them down maybe?

There is a table by the door with a little lamp on it. And theres a 6 lamp right by the couch...again, out of frame. Move them?

Its just an apartment. Not super tiny, but tight enough.

And thank you.

Thanks to all of you.


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#26 Ed Conley

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:37 PM

I read something just a few days ago about how its actually better to (almost) overexpose then to underexpose.

The living room was dark enough, as you could probably see. And that was with two lights. Its not a big room. The second I go higher than f2, it darkens the scene considerably.

So try 4.5 and throw more light in?

 

You add more ambient light to the room with a couple of the Work light halogens 250watt/500watt. It will look very bright to you but in camera it will still be dark.
 

You can also use a dimmer on the work lights.


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#27 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:47 PM

You have to eliminate the variables - shoot a front-lit, flat shot at normal exposure and load it on YouTube and see what the quality is like without attempting any mood lighting, but shoot something with some range of tones so you can see the compression artifacts and noise in darker tones.  If it looks good, then you shouldn't have a problem with lighting more to one side with some shadows.


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#28 Joshua Miner

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:46 AM

Hi Justin,

I have the same camera and Rokinon lens - based on the video you posted, you don't have enough light to make for a good image.  The low ISO on the camera will mean that the image from the sensor is cleaner than a higher one (mileage may vary), but in post you're raising the exposure levels, which will also raise any existing noise in the image. 

 

With that Rokinon lens the 'sweet spot' is t4/t5.6 where you get a nice clear image.  When you have the lens opened up to t1.5 it is less sharp and has some odd colors on the edges.  Unfortunately you will need to add more light to compensate for that.  You can light with cheap hardware store lights - and it'd be a fun challenge, but it is challenge to get the right lighting. 

 

If you're on a super tight budget, try some of those el-cheapo-deluxe 500 watt work lights for $35 or so.  They're big and ugly, but cheap and put out a lot of light.  You can try shooting at ISO 800 or 1600 with the lens set at t4.  As others have posted above, try lighting some object, like a toy model or a bookshelf.  That way you can be behind the camera and see how it will approximately look and make adjustments from there.  The Canon T5 is a decent starter camera (and I absolutely love the Rokinon 35mm, it's my workhorse), so you just have to keep experimenting and plugging away.


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#29 Justin Oakley

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:53 AM

Hi Justin,
I have the same camera and Rokinon lens - based on the video you posted, you don't have enough light to make for a good image.  The low ISO on the camera will mean that the image from the sensor is cleaner than a higher one (mileage may vary), but in post you're raising the exposure levels, which will also raise any existing noise in the image. 
 
With that Rokinon lens the 'sweet spot' is t4/t5.6 where you get a nice clear image.  When you have the lens opened up to t1.5 it is less sharp and has some odd colors on the edges.  Unfortunately you will need to add more light to compensate for that.  You can light with cheap hardware store lights - and it'd be a fun challenge, but it is challenge to get the right lighting. 
 
If you're on a super tight budget, try some of those el-cheapo-deluxe 500 watt work lights for $35 or so.  They're big and ugly, but cheap and put out a lot of light.  You can try shooting at ISO 800 or 1600 with the lens set at t4.  As others have posted above, try lighting some object, like a toy model or a bookshelf.  That way you can be behind the camera and see how it will approximately look and make adjustments from there.  The Canon T5 is a decent starter camera (and I absolutely love the Rokinon 35mm, it's my workhorse), so you just have to keep experimenting and plugging away.


Thanks! This is a big help. Im pretty much just guessing and flying by the seat of my pants at this point. I did get fairly decent results when I threw a whole bunch of light in and set the aperture around 4. However, I had read (more than one source) that its best to expose to the right as much as possible and kind of darken it in post. Doing this proved to be a little more of a challenge and I ended up having to open up the aperture even more. And this room was absolutely filled with light. I used a work light stand from Lowes...it did the trick. Now its almost like theres too much light and I really had to bring those mids down in post.

I did bring the iso up to 200...but Im still a little scared of cranking it up too high. 800 seems like a bit high, no?
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#30 Joshua Miner

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:13 PM

Hi Justin,

It depends on the camera, though I believe that still holds true for Canon DSLRs.  It's not necessarily 'easier' to fix, but there will be less overall noise if you have to darken the exposure in post.  However, if you absolutely overexpose the shot then nothing you do can fix it - all the information that is overexposed is lost (at least in this specific case with this specific setup).  When I have some time tomorrow I'll play around with my T5 and do some exposure tests using normal room lighting. 

 

One essential tool I would suggest is a light meter - I wish I had one when I first started making movies and videos, and it's worth the investment to accurately gauge how to set the camera for proper exposure. 

 

I'd recommend this: set up some stationary thing like I mentioned above with flat lighting (as David suggests) and take an image or short clip at every ISO setting but leaving everything else the same (so shoot at t4 or whatever and 1/50 shutter but increment from ISO 100-6400) and look at it in post to see how ISO affects the image quality.  Now, ideally, you'd shoot at the lowest ISO, but that's not always possible (given lighting constraints or otherwise) so for your first projects and experiments don't get hung up too much on the ISO - work on your framing and practice the fundamentals of getting light on the subject.  It's okay to mess up, it's part of the learning process, and thankfully digital is cheap so you can afford to experiment as much as you like.


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#31 timHealy

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:40 AM

Hey Justin,

To reiterate what Joshua just said in a way I learned early on, don’t confuse “dark” with low light. You need more light. You can make something look dark with @f22 by the way you choose your light source, color, and how you use cutters, flags and nets. Electricians light sets but the grips take it away and shape it with toppers siders and bottom cuts.

Best

Tim
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