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#121 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 10:02 AM

Film will still be used professionally for at least a decade if not two or three, so if you're planning on being a cinematographer, you have to learn how to shoot film unless for some reason you think it will be decades before you enter the professional world -- or if you plan on actively avoiding film jobs that come along. Of course, you have to learn digital issues as well, but film technology is part of the professional world and will be after many of you have graduated film school, so you're not going to be much of a cinematographer if you avoid learning about the technology still used to make most films.
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#122 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 10:08 AM

Film will still be used professionally for at least a decade if not two or three, so if you're planning on being a cinematographer, you have to learn how to shoot film unless for some reason you think it will be decades before you enter the professional world -- or if you plan on actively avoiding film jobs that come along. Of course, you have to learn digital issues as well, but film technology is part of the professional world and will be after many of you have graduated film school, so you're not going to be much of a cinematographer if you avoid learning about the technology still used to make most films.


Thanks, I have a copy of this hanging in my office.

R,
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#123 Daniel Smith

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 10:18 AM

Film will still be used professionally for at least a decade if not two or three, so if you're planning on being a cinematographer, you have to learn how to shoot film unless for some reason you think it will be decades before you enter the professional world -- or if you plan on actively avoiding film jobs that come along. Of course, you have to learn digital issues as well, but film technology is part of the professional world and will be after many of you have graduated film school, so you're not going to be much of a cinematographer if you avoid learning about the technology still used to make most films.

True enough.

I've always thought it's good to learn on film first anyway. Unless you have prosumer digital gear, altering things like shutter speed and aperture is slightly harder.

Plus obtaining shallow depth of field is hard enough with amateur equipment anyway. I wish they would make all digital cameras with full frame sensors. With 35mm I've found that you can perfectly balance how much depth of field you want. With the digital cameras I deal with, you're pretty much stuck with a huge depth of field. Unless you use a super fast lens (which would cost about £1000, for an SLR) or unless you zoomed all the way in. But then you get a very compressed perspective, which may not be what you want. (And it's a sod in smaller locations)

I've spoken to quite a few student film makers. They can all tell you the difference in pixels between all these different cameras. But when it comes to the bare basics, aperture, shutter speed, filters, they're lost.

That's why if anyone has just started getting into film, I always say buy an old 35mm SLR. Teaches all the theory and sets you up for shooting in digital if need be.

P.S. I don't claim to be a professional myself, I'm still a student, and always will be. I just hold a lot of interest in the making of films and other creative areas. So I'm not trying to sound like I know it all when I talk about giving advice to other amateurs like myself. Just, some amateurs are more amateur than others.

Edited by Daniel Ashley-Smith, 01 September 2006 - 10:20 AM.

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#124 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 04:21 PM

True enough.

I've always thought it's good to learn on film first anyway. Unless you have prosumer digital gear, altering things like shutter speed and aperture is slightly harder.

Plus obtaining shallow depth of field is hard enough with amateur equipment anyway. I wish they would make all digital cameras with full frame sensors. With 35mm I've found that you can perfectly balance how much depth of field you want. With the digital cameras I deal with, you're pretty much stuck with a huge depth of field. Unless you use a super fast lens (which would cost about £1000, for an SLR) or unless you zoomed all the way in. But then you get a very compressed perspective, which may not be what you want. (And it's a sod in smaller locations)

I've spoken to quite a few student film makers. They can all tell you the difference in pixels between all these different cameras. But when it comes to the bare basics, aperture, shutter speed, filters, they're lost.

That's why if anyone has just started getting into film, I always say buy an old 35mm SLR. Teaches all the theory and sets you up for shooting in digital if need be.

P.S. I don't claim to be a professional myself, I'm still a student, and always will be. I just hold a lot of interest in the making of films and other creative areas. So I'm not trying to sound like I know it all when I talk about giving advice to other amateurs like myself. Just, some amateurs are more amateur than others.



So essentially you killed the old DAS, and you've assumed his body form?

Since when did you become a proponent of film :D

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#125 Daniel Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:10 PM

So essentially you killed the old DAS, and you've assumed his body form?

Since when did you become a proponent of film :D

R,

As far as I can remember, I've always preffered film. I've just always preffered the flexibility of digital. Which is why I shoot film but then transfer it to digital for grading.
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#126 Richard Boddington

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:45 PM

As far as I can remember, I've always preffered film. I've just always preffered the flexibility of digital. Which is why I shoot film but then transfer it to digital for grading.


As far as you can remember? Hmmm, I think maybe we can dig up some famous quotes of yours when you where telling us how you where going to shoot a film on HD that would rival Lord Of The Rings. Remember those days? I also seem to remember you saying, "that film would have to go away."

How did that project turn out any way?

No, I'm not trying to provoke a fight with you, just referencing a by gone era that's all.

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#127 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:34 PM

This thread is hilarious as well as being one of the most tangential roller coaster rides so I'll throw in my 2 cents.
David Mullen is right (as usual) about learning film techniques.
No matter what, light and lighting principles will never change.
The ratios change and of course the fixtures change with technological breakthroughs.
The same applies to grip.
Film or digital, the camera or capture device will have to be supported and/or moved.
As a cinematographer (or future cinematographer) it is essential to stay on top of digital and film.
Personally I would love to see all motion picture people concentrate more on their personal "why's" because the "how's" seem to dominate.
IMHO it is more important to know why you are putting that light there than how the latest dimmable fluorescent fixture with MP3 player inputs, remote head with built-in coffee maker etc. can be integrated into the next project because it's "cool".
I'm constantly asking directors why they want to move the camera at a particular point.
Many don't really know. "Because it would look good", "Seems like a good time to", etc. does not cut it for me.


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#128 Daniel Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:04 PM

As far as you can remember? Hmmm, I think maybe we can dig up some famous quotes of yours when you where telling us how you where going to shoot a film on HD that would rival Lord Of The Rings. Remember those days? I also seem to remember you saying, "that film would have to go away."

How did that project turn out any way?

No, I'm not trying to provoke a fight with you, just referencing a by gone era that's all.

R,

Ah.. that old thing... Most kids think they can pull off this stuff, until; they actually give it a go. I don't remember saying it was going to be the next Lord of the Rings though, just, of that quality. And no I finally realised that I couldn't afford to make it.

Although looking back on it, it wasn't bad! (What I wanted to do would have cost thousands, and probably would have had to include the makers of Lord of the Rings. I was actually bargaining with Optex on a Panasonic SDX900.. but hey we all had dreams.)

I can't remember exactly what I said about film 'going away', but it has been sometime now that I've been using film and scanning it in to edit it digitally.

And, as I've said before. I was mistaken for a lot of stuff I said, simply because I didn't know how to voice myself correctly. How comes I haven't got into a real argument for ages? It's not as though I'm a whole different person, I just know how to voice myself correctly.

Looking back on some of the arguments, I wasn't always wrong. People interpreted what I was saying incorrectly, and it escalated, until I ended up saying something that WAS wrong, and all hell blew loose.

But I'm not the only one around here who said some stupid things. Richard. ;)
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#129 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:12 PM

Dan S. Qoute: Personally I would love to see all motion picture people concentrate more on their personal "why's" because the "how's" seem to dominate.

Well put, Mr. Salzmann. :) Technology over humanity. Of course you need to know HOW to fufill WHY, but nowadays philosophy/theory is an endangered species....
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#130 Richard Boddington

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:16 PM

But I'm not the only one around here who said some stupid things. Richard. ;)


If you're refering to me I can't think of a single occasion. Although I'd be happy to supply a list of people that fit the bill.

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#131 Daniel Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:23 PM

If you're refering to me I can't think of a single occasion. Although I'd be happy to supply a list of people that fit the bill.

R,

Well, not that I'm trying to open up an old chest here, but I seem to remember you saying something about how younger people should allow you to walk over them, since as you were older. In an old arguement with you, Landon, TSM and myself.

(Speaking of them two, I wonder what happened to them. Haven't seen them around here in ages.)

Edited by Daniel Ashley-Smith, 06 September 2006 - 03:24 PM.

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#132 Daniel Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:33 PM

Oh, and not to mention that time Landon and I were having a harmless friendly chat and everyone on here decided to come down on us like a ton of bricks. At the time I more or less felt like we were being told off by adults for being naughty. Looking back on it, what a bunch of a**holes...
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#133 Richard Boddington

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:03 PM

Well, not that I'm trying to open up an old chest here, but I seem to remember you saying something about how younger people should allow you to walk over them, since as you were older. In an old arguement with you, Landon, TSM and myself.

(Speaking of them two, I wonder what happened to them. Haven't seen them around here in ages.)


Use the search and find my quote.

Landon was signed to a five picture deal with Universal Studios and no longer has time for these forums.

TSM, will appear the instant some one starts a thread that has to do with the Middle East, etc etc.

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#134 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:09 PM

Are you serious about Landon? Very happy for him :D I hope all goes well.
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#135 Daniel Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:12 PM

Use the search and find my quote.

No it's too much effort to find something that old for the sake of proving that I wasn't the only one. Who cares it was ages ago.

Landon was signed to a five picture deal with Universal Studios and no longer has time for these forums.

TSM, will appear the instant some one starts a thread that has to do with the Middle East, etc etc.

:lol: ok. I've always got along with Jonathon in the past, you mention he's interested in specific threads, where's he actually from? (I've spoken to him a lot but haven't actually got any idea as to who he is or what he does)

Edited by Daniel Ashley-Smith, 06 September 2006 - 04:13 PM.

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#136 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:10 PM

Are you serious about Landon? Very happy for him :D I hope all goes well.


Hi,

Richard's has a sense of humor!

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#137 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:27 PM

HEHEHE!!! :D

I know, that's why I love him! We don't agree on some political issues, for sure, but who cares about politics if a man can make you laugh?

This was my little attempt at humor/sarcasm....FAILED!!
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