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Cheapest Method For LOTS of Light?


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#1 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:04 PM

Thought multiple views could be shared here.

 

What is the best way to blast an area with light beyond a couple 1k moles which are incredible for their price , but can still stay under let's say $1000?

Maxi Brutes? A cheap HMI I'm not aware of? Just more Moles?

 

Thanks for any findings you can share from your career.


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:11 PM

Tungsten tends to be cheap to buy or rent — but expensive to power. Sure, multi-bank PARs tend to give you a lot of light assuming you have the generator for them. Not sure whether a 1.8K HMI PAR is cheaper than a 12-light Maxibrute...
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:20 PM

If you have a few hundred to spend, look around for some Chroma-Q Daylight PARs. They're hot-start 575W HMIs in an (extremely efficient) ETC Source Four PAR shell, and are currently going for $350 or so on eBay. I'd own some, but they're barely worth shipping transatlantic; the eBay ones are in Glens Falls, New York, so that may be workable for you. The caveat is that they're effectively stuck permanently in flicker-free mode, so they can buzz. I get the impression most don't. A similar technology is available in the Enliten Exhibition PAR, which is similar but less desirable as it will not hot start, though the lamps are cheaper. Other search terms are things like "Elation Opti PAR" and "575W Power PAR" but some of the results from those searches will be magnetic ballast. This may or may not be a dealbreaker for you.

 

Failing that, I wish people made ceramic metal halide lighting for moments like this. Arri do make the Ceramic 250, which uses the technology, but it's more common at the 150 and 600W level. It's the technology that is widely used (though gradually being supplanted) in retail premises, but if you want a lot of light with reasonable colour quality, with the caveat of not being hot-strikable (the Arri is), it is very useful.

 

You can sometimes find Source Four PARs that have been refitted with 150W ceramic or even 575W MSR, which is sort of HMI by another name but tends to be colder in colour temperature; it's a lamp often used for intelligent lighting. Or, at the extreme cheap end, buy hydroponics gear, clamp it to a stand, and look out for 600W ceramic metal halide bulbs with decent colour performance. The best CMH is often around 4200K.

 

P


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#4 JD Hartman

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:24 PM

I know where there is a used 24 light Dino that might be bought for mere 3k.  A new ARRI 1.8K HMI  PAR runs about $9500 or so.


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#5 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:09 PM

I know where there is a used 24 light Dino that might be bought for mere 3k.

 

Power solution:

 

hamster2.jpg


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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:17 PM

Cheapest for lots of low-power light might be a bunch of plastic sockets and a hell of a lot of LED bulbs wired up on a piece of plastic/wood. Another option would be just the 50W LED Chips
https://www.ebay.com...oxmpmbJoOvo1kQQ

again on plastic or something similar. Color might not be great, but would be cheap on a per lumen basis.


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#7 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:20 PM

A maxi brute typically rents for around half of what an M18 does per day, but then you have to power it somehow.

 

I've got an old mini brute 9 light that I picked up on eBay for $200, but that still needs a genny.


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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:28 PM

I could not see, under almost any circumstances, going through the aggravation of getting a generator out to run a (nearly) 6K mini brute, to achieve an amount of light that can be confidently equalled by about 1.5K of almost any better tech. I just wish more options existed that weren't $10k plus to buy.

 

Re Adrian's plan, the problem with the LED chips is that anything above a few watts starts to need active cooling. If you're into a bit of DIY, You can strap the 100-watt Yuji LEDs to standard computer CPU cooler and an off-the-peg power supply, and end up with something pretty close (really startlingly close) to some of the 100-watt open faced LED lights that currently exist. But it might not be very pretty.

 

P


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#9 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:42 PM

I could not see, under almost any circumstances, going through the aggravation of getting a generator out to run a (nearly) 6K mini brute, to achieve an amount of light that can be confidently equalled by about 1.5K of almost any better tech. I just wish more options existed that weren't $10k plus to buy.

 

 

I agree. As David said tungsten is cheap, but powering it is not. I've done some low budget shows where the LP wanted us to run from house power to save money, and just about all my beloved tungsten lamps had to get cut as well.

 

HMI is the only way to go, and without a genny, an M18 is your best option if you're renting


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#10 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:59 PM

I could not see, under almost any circumstances, going through the aggravation of getting a generator out to run a (nearly) 6K mini brute, to achieve an amount of light that can be confidently equalled by about 1.5K of almost any better tech. I just wish more options existed that weren't $10k plus to buy.

 

Re Adrian's plan, the problem with the LED chips is that anything above a few watts starts to need active cooling. If you're into a bit of DIY, You can strap the 100-watt Yuji LEDs to standard computer CPU cooler and an off-the-peg power supply, and end up with something pretty close (really startlingly close) to some of the 100-watt open faced LED lights that currently exist. But it might not be very pretty.

 

P

 

On the LED chips; I'm imagining them more as "covered wagon" configuration; where hopefully by being spaced out a bit, you'd be able to keep them cool passively. Not ideal; of course, but you could, I suppose, throw on some heat-sinks to the back and work out a cooling solution to the enclosure with a PC fan, though then you'd need to drop down the voltage for that from the 120 mains (plus the noise).
if i knew how to solder, and I don't, I'd fab one up and see how well it comes out.


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#11 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:22 PM

It's a nice idea, but sadly it doesn't quite work. Anything above the three or five watt level needs either fan cooling or an impractically large heatsink.

 

If you want to build LEDs, you can do the 100W junctions on a CPU heatsink with fan, or, you do basically what we discussed when we were talking about essentially a clone of the Quasar LED tubes. You buy three-watt LEDs on the hexagonal heat spreaders, bolt them down to the heatsinks designed for just such an eventuality, and you can build something that's four feet long (or four one-foot lengths, or whatever you want) and represents about 48W of LED. This is essentially a weekend project (making it pretty is a bit more work) but that's absolutely the hairy edge of what you can cool passively.

 

50W LEDs run without enormous heatsinks, or heatsinks with fans, will catch fire.

 

dnbof.jpg


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#12 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:34 PM

But; to the topic, fire is also a pretty cheap way for LOTS of light!


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#13 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:42 PM

I thought that flyer had a swastika on it for a second...

good thing the guy is under a cross-out


Edited by Macks Fiiod, 12 March 2018 - 08:42 PM.

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#14 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:48 PM

Eisenstein and is cameraman used mirrors a lot. Can't get cheaper than that.......


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#15 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:07 PM

Eisenstein and is cameraman used mirrors a lot. Can't get cheaper than that.......

But not too effective at night...


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#16 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:37 PM

Yes, but is Max's job to specify day/night. Why should we have to guess or assume....


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#17 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:40 PM

I know he didn't say day or night, but he was talking about lighting large areas with Mole 1kw lamps, which is not something you would contemplate for day scenes.


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#18 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:47 PM

It seems unlikely that one would light large areas with 1K fresnels at night either, unless you had a large number of them.  Everyone may have fun throwing ideas at Max, but really this is a classic case of an underspecified question that is too open tinterpretation.  


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#19 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 12:20 AM

I thought a 1k mole made it obvious it was for large night interiors..


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#20 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:37 AM

Shoot day for night.. can even use mirrors .. :)


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