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#1 Alan Bourhis

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

Hi everybody,

I’m actually a student in cinema and I would like to upgrade my video setup for two main reasons : dynamic range and colors depth. 

For the past two years, I shot two short-films and many other video with a Canon 100D but I’m starting to feel like I need to level up the technical quality of my image (8 bits to a good 10bits). 

As a student my budget is a bit limited, I would like to keep my actual lenses ( 50mm and 70/300mm on EF mount and maybe my 18-55mm with a EF-S mount). 

I had thought of the BMMCC or BMPCC but I know I will need to rig it, like a lot. In your opinion, first, should I buy a speedbooster or directly go on a camera with an EF mount ? (I saw on the internet that the BMPCC could possibly be available with an EF mount). 

I also know that vignetting could appear or distorsion. That’s why I would like some proud owners to guide me toward my final choice !

And last, I already own a monitor and sound gears but I would like to know what are your must have accessories to equip these cameras (cage, matte box, filters... as I’m going from a DSLR to a video camera)?

My budget would be around 500-1500€ (pre-owned camera or accessories are not a problem). 

Thanks a lot and sorry for my English.

 

PS : I have only own DSLR, sorry if appear a bit like a noob.


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#2 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

Howdy! So right off the bat, you can't use standard Canon glass electric glass on a pocket camera, even with an electronic adaptor. It will control the iris, but nothing else, no auto focus and no stabilization. I don't know of a non-canon camera, that those functions will work on. So if you're OK with just iris, then the metabones "electronic" speed booster will work fine. 

 

I mean I love my pocket cameras, I have 2 of them and I'm a very active cinematographer, shooting pretty much weekly.  I've had them for 4 years and I've traveled the country with them shooting documentaries, industrials and narratives. So I know them probably better than any other digital system. 

 

They're good for some things, but not good with others. If you just shoot with the basic standard playback frame rates (24,25,30) and don't need high ISO or slomo, the camera will do fine. 

 

If you have any specific questions about the camera let me know and I will answer. I don't know what you'll be shooting or if you understand the limitations of each camera system. 


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#3 Alan Bourhis

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:14 PM

Hi Tyler,

 

Thanks for your answer :wub: . My camera would be used especially for short films and documentary. Yes I understand the limitatiosn, that's why I look also to the BMMCC which provide 60 frames.

 

So for you the best choice is to work with lenses made for the camera (and it's was my opinion too but I wanted to be sure) ? :)

 

Thanks !


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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:20 PM

The blackmagic micro camera is another solution for sure, but it doesn't have a viewfinder or anything, so that kinda sucks.. It makes your rig super big for no reason.

I use all manual cinema lenses with my cameras, I don't own electronic lenses from any brand due to these issues.
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#5 Alan Bourhis

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:50 PM

Always having a monitor would not be a problem but I can understand the problem of productivity when needing to change the rig every shot.

 

I got three questions :

 

1 - Did you use the BMPCC to shoot some shaky shots (like a fight) ?

2 - What would be the essential rig kit for BMPCC/BMMCC ?

3 - How did you manage the crop factor ?

 

Thanks !


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#6 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:37 PM

The one advantage to the Micro Cinema Camera vs the Pocket is 60p. The pocket maxes at 30. Yes, it lacks a viewfinder - but more likely than not you're going to be putting a 5-7" monitor onto your rig anyway. You simply can't pull good focus on those tiny, low res 3" screens. 

 

If you're looking to outfit your camera with a rig, a monitor, follow focus and matte box are essential, along with a rail and base plate system. My advice is, don't go super-cheap with your rig. I did this at first as well, and regretted it. 

 

Honestly, right now a really good combination if you're working with the Pocket is the JTZ setup. They have a nice camera cage, follow focus, matte box, and even a v-mount battery plate with backup. The whole kit can be had for around $1,200 - and is sturdy as hell. I regularly pick my rig up by the matte box - its the sturdy. 

 

You can find the JTZ products on Amazon, just type in JTZ _ (matte box, follow focus, pocket cage, etc). If you're looking to save a little cash, you can go with the Fotga DP500iii follow focus, which saves about $150 - and is essential the same as the JTZ, except it doesn't have the record-buttons on the follow focus. For a monitor, the best budget one right now, in my mind anyway, is the SmallHD 701/501. 


Edited by Landon D. Parks, 05 January 2018 - 11:37 PM.

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#7 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

Some links:

 

Pocket Cage (They don't have a cage for the Micro, but you could go with a smallrig cage)

https://www.amazon.c...jtz pocket cage

 

JTZ Matte Box

https://www.amazon.c...s=jtz matte box

 

Fotga DP500iii Follow Focus

https://www.amazon.c...=fotga dp500iii

 

SmallHD 701

https://www.amazon.c...d=ALORA49PI3GGB


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#8 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:49 AM

1 - Did you use the BMPCC to shoot some shaky shots (like a fight) ?


I have a shitty chinese rig I got online for $350 that works great. Slap a viewfinder adaptor on the viewfinder and you're good to go!

tyebmcrig.JPG
 

2 - What would be the essential rig kit for BMPCC/BMMCC ?


For the pocket, you only NEED the viewfinder adaptor (and a decent mic) so you can put your eye against the camera. Today I use a monopod for handheld work and it works pretty awesome. I just push the eyepiece against my face and it works perfectly! I also have super 16 glass today which helps me shoot great stuff. This rig goes right onto a monopod and it's super stable due to the weight. 
 
pocket_w_zeiss.jpg
 

3 - How did you manage the crop factor ?


It's not bad... I tend to gravitate towards longer lenses to get the shallow depth of field and run it all the way open if I can. My go-to prime is the Rokinon DS 24mm which is F 1.5 and all the way open it's pretty good. It's equivalent to a 70mm on DSLR in still mode. Just remember that nearly all video cameras have a crop factor, even the still one's that shoot video. 

 

Download this.. (don't watch it in the link) and you can see what the camera can produce quality wise with decent glass in a run and gun documentary setting. 

 

https://www.dropbox....12-120.mov?dl=0


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#9 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:04 AM

I would avoid the really low-quality FilmCity-type stuff. I purchased a $250 rig that had the shoulder rig, matte box and quick release plate - and it was the biggest joke in the world. The shoulder pad was a peice of foam with 'Film City' written in bold comic sans across the top. The rig was all plastic except for the rods, the quick release plate was crooked - which meant that you had to put the other accessories on the rails first, or else they just wouldn't go on. The Matte box flags consistently fell off, and the matte box itself would rock back and forth with simple handheld use of the rig. I bought a $100 follow focus as well, and it was just plain bad - trying put a speed crank in its 'accessories port', and it just hung there, loose as they come. 

 

Some Chinese stuff is okay, just make sure its from a respectable brand. Personally, the LOWEST level I would consider acceptable is Fotga and SmallRig, with JTZ being a premium brand - all metal construction, etc.

 

Say what you will about the JTZ stuff, but its not only built like a tank - but its got convenient record buttons on the cage, etc.

 

Here is the real issue with cheap Chinese and Indian stuff: Your 'rig' will last through many cameras. Your $450 JTZ Matte Box will last you years and years with good care, 40 years down the road the thing can still be slapped on the front of the greatest camera and be ready to go. Your rig (and your grip equipment) are areas you should never skimp on, because they are really a lifetime investment, unlike electronics. 

 

 

For the pocket, you only NEED the viewfinder adaptor (and a decent mic) so you can put your eye against the camera. Today I use a monopod for handheld work and it works pretty awesome. I just push the eyepiece against my face and it works perfectly! I also have super 16 glass today which helps me shoot great stuff. This rig goes right onto a monopod and it's super stable due to the weight. 

I'd still suggest a monitor. I don't see how a one-man camera band can operate with one eye consistently glued to a tiny viewfinder. A 7" monitor not only shows you your frame line, but also helps with focus peaking and zebra. It also allows you to pull your head away from the camera body, so you can pull focus. Maybe if you the luxury of a 1st and 2nd AC, but even then, I'd still rather view my image on a 7" screen, rather than trying to get my framing by squinting my eye through a tiny, uncomfortable viewfinder.

 

Of course, you're mileage will vary. If you where raised in the era of film, that's just the way it was done.


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#10 Alan Bourhis

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:04 AM

Actually, after all your answer I'm beginning to see clear ^_^ . That's pretty good to have different opinions about the RIG I should afford.

Considering the focus, I would go with Landon, I have focused with a 7" monitor and a viewfinder (got the two) and I prefer the monitor which is more precise (considering I'm wearing glasses  :wacko: ).

Considering the RIG, the problem is to be able to afford high-end accessories, my budget is not high (can't do better, I planned a trip to the USA next year and as a student I can't work). I think I should do a mix between your two propositions  :D 

 

I still have one question :

 

1 - What is the use of a 16 glass ? 

2 - Do you have any recommendation on lenses for the BM ? I know this is totally arbitrary but I like to have different opinions ! 

 

Thanks, you are really helping me out  :wub:


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#11 Will Montgomery

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:11 AM

 

pocket_w_zeiss.jpg
 

I have the exact same lens/camera combo but with the Wooden Camera frame/pl mount. That Arri S16 glass is a great front end for the BMPCC.


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#12 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:30 PM

1 - What is the use of a 16 glass ? 

2 - Do you have any recommendation on lenses for the BM ? I know this is totally arbitrary but I like to have different opinions ! 

 

1. 16mm glass is glass designed for use on Super16mm cameras. Those lenses are usually cinema-quality, meaning they are built like a tank, and have all the proper t-marking, focus rings, and aperture ring - full manual. They work great with the pocket, since the pocket has the same size sensor as Super16 film. It also eliminates the need to fuss over crop factors, since its a native lens to the sensor size. Downside is that while you can get some cheap c-mount super16 lenses, the really good high quality lenses are going to be the PL mount zooms from such angenieux and such, which will run you at least 2x the cost of the camera used. 

 

2. Purchase a Metabones Speedbooster 0.58x version for the pocket camera, and then purchase some Rokinon Cine DS lenses (make sure and get the DS and not the regular Cine model). They are currently the cheapest cine-styles lenses available, but perform flawlessly. You can start with 1 or 2 of the lenses, and then build up a kit as you go along. I'd probably start with the 16mm and the 35mm for the pocket when using a speedbooster - maybe the 16 and the 50 if you need a wider option, or all three if you could afford them. If you hope to get any wide angle at all on the pocket camera, the Speedbooster is going to be essential to that. The camera itsself has around a 3x crop factor, meaning that placing a full-frame lens on it without an adapter will net you 3x the focal length. A 24mm lens will actually be a 72mm or some such. 


Edited by Landon D. Parks, 10 January 2018 - 05:35 PM.

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#13 David Peterson

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:52 AM

The one advantage to the Micro Cinema Camera vs the Pocket is 60p. The pocket maxes at 30. Yes, it lacks a viewfinder - but more likely than not you're going to be putting a 5-7" monitor onto your rig anyway. You simply can't pull good focus on those tiny, low res 3" screens. 

The Micro has many more advantages over the Pocket than just that! For instance the full size HDMI is much nicer on the BMMCC, than the BMPCC's Micro HDMI output

On the topic of the Micro/Pocket, you can save a lot of money by not going Metabones but buying another cheaper focal reducer such as say RJ Lens Turbo. And using Nikon lenses rather than Canon electronic lenses. 


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