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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K - CONFIRMED! BMPCC 4K!


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#41 aapo lettinen

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:10 PM

I will surely get one at some point, would be handy for plates and stuff.

 

is there any info yet how much the body actually weights and which batteries fit to it & how much run time per battery?

 

could be very usable as a drone camera I think when the weight is confirmed.

 

would not trust a Blackmagic product as a A camera unless there is enough time to continuously check the material on set and reshoot if needed. my impression of their products is that they are nice on paper and innovative and handy but they have lots of build quality problems and mechanical design faults (connectors not secured to the body etc which may lead to internal damage if having stress on the connectors, etc) . faulty touchscreens and stuff . firmware related stuff also but not more than with other manufacturers I think.

Like buying Maxtor/Seagate portable drives... they work and are kind of good but they are not just very high quality overall and are not as sturdy as better brands, just about OK for the price :blink:

 

The new pocket will be great value even if it's not super high quality or reliable or has image problems like noise and jellocam etc.

The manufacturer has had lots of delivery problems before (I think there was 1 or 1.5 year delay with the original Cinema Camera release and also long delays with the other later models) so I would not expect it to deliver this year though I hope it will :lol:


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#42 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:35 PM

is there any info yet how much the body actually weights and which batteries fit to it & how much run time per battery?

Battery is standard Canon LP-E6, same as the BMPCC. They say up to 60 minutes, but that is probably without using the screen and not providing phantom power. With both, you'll probably get 20-30 recording minutes. In terms of battery, this camera will suffer from the same issue the original did - it will need external power for any serious shoots. 

Can't find an official weight yet --- but that is likely because they don't know yet. The body currently used is aluminum I believe, but the production model will be some form of carbon fiber. I'd say its probably on par with every other DSLR out there - around a pound. 

 

 

could be very usable as a drone camera I think when the weight is confirmed.

 

Ehhh - possibility, but the low batter life and current lack of external control might not make it the best for that. Of course, things may change in 6 months.

 

would not trust a Blackmagic product as a A camera unless there is enough time to continuously check the material on set and reshoot if needed. my impression of their products is that they are nice on paper and innovative and handy but they have lots of build quality problems and mechanical design faults (connectors not secured to the body etc which may lead to internal damage if having stress on the connectors, etc) . faulty touchscreens and stuff . firmware related stuff also but not more than with other manufacturers I think.

 

Of all the complaints I have toward Blackmagic, I don't think reliability is one of them. There camera's all feature some trade-offs to get to the price point, but I haven't heard of any Blackmagic cameras randomly pooping out - at least in large numbers. Maybe there is more problems than I can recall right now, but I'd have no problem using a Blackmagic cameras as an A-cam. 

I currently have my two micro cinema cameras out on a longer-term rental with a company that is shooting with them 12 hour days, and has not reported any problems with them so far.

 

Like buying Maxtor/Seagate portable drives... they work and are kind of good but they are not just very high quality overall and are not as sturdy as better brands, just about OK for the price :blink:

 

The best drives for this, right now, are the Samsung t5 500GB-2TB portal USB-C drives. Small, portable, and plugs directly into USB-C. Starts at $150 for the 500GB variant. 

 

The manufacturer has had lots of delivery problems before (I think there was 1 or 1.5 year delay with the original Cinema Camera release and also long delays with the other later models) so I would not expect it to deliver this year though I hope it will :lol:

 

Yes, BUT they have been getting better with each subsequent camera. I don't think its fair to point back to the original Blackmagic camera and use that as reasons why a major delay is possible. All camera manufacturers have early-life delivery issues. How long did it take RED to deliver their first Red One, despite promised dates being missed?

The past few cameras have been released more or less on-time, but there has been a back-order problem.

Also, they mentioned at NAB the reason they are saying September is be conservative, so as not to disappoint. Apparently, the cameras are ready for manufacture right now. My guess is they want a sufficiently large supply so they don't have a back-order issue again. By 'releasing' the camera at NAB they can gauge interest in the next few months and ramp production accordingly --- smart move on their part.


Edited by Landon D. Parks, 11 April 2018 - 07:36 PM.

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#43 Bruce Greene

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 01:47 PM

Body looks like a Fuji 120 Rangefinder...the Texas Leica...

 

6017215629_ea24f0ab91_b.jpg

Can my Fuji 6x9 cameras shoot movies too?  If they did, it would be IMAX quality!!!!


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#44 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:16 PM

I've had zero problems with Blackmagic reliability... Yes the old pocket had a few bugaboos but all of them were easy to fix 


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#45 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:51 PM

I've had zero problems with Blackmagic reliability... Yes the old pocket had a few bugaboos but all of them were easy to fix 

The biggest bugaboo was no buttonaboos


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#46 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:17 PM

The biggest bugaboo was no buttonaboos

 

 

Naaa I had zero problems with that. My problem was the bottom tripod mount would come loose after repeated use and I'd have to disassemble the camera and tighten it 


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#47 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:44 AM

Biggest problems I had was changing noise pattern and over-heating pixels when the thing was running for a long time.


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#48 Samuel Berger

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:04 AM

Looks like the delivery date got pushed back to October 5. Imagine that...


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#49 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 01:23 AM

Yep, they've got production issues. I figured it would be pushed and I won't be buying one of the first batch, no way.

The reviews have been stellar so far, not a single negative one.
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#50 Samuel Berger

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 02:59 PM

I imagine that I will be skipping it for the C200.


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#51 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:51 PM

I imagine that I will be skipping it for the C200.


The C200 is already out of date really... It's a shame Canon purposely restricts their cameras capabilities.
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#52 Samuel Berger

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

The C200 is already out of date really... It's a shame Canon purposely restricts their cameras capabilities.

 

I'm not sure it will ever really be out of date, unless 8K as a new standard really happens. So it doesn't have a 10-bit codec, I know, but transcoding is something that's just going to start getting faster and faster.

Where I think the C200 has a problem is in its pricing. I don't see Canon making it cheaper any time soon.  I'm not sure that the price is fair, even though the camera would be one I'd likely use for 20 years.


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#53 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 11:37 PM

I'm not sure it will ever really be out of date, unless 8K as a new standard really happens. So it doesn't have a 10-bit codec, I know, but transcoding is something that's just going to start getting faster and faster.
Where I think the C200 has a problem is in its pricing. I don't see Canon making it cheaper any time soon.  I'm not sure that the price is fair, even though the camera would be one I'd likely use for 20 years.


So you've got two options with the C200... decent bitrate Jpeg2000 12 bit 4:2:2 RAW or low-bit rate Long GOP 8 bit 4:2:0.

Just to remind you, the low-bit rate Long GOP MPEG codec is designed for web streaming, not for camera original. The reason why manufacturers include it, is because the ASIC that does the encoding is cheap. Owning anything that has that codec, is basically telling the manufacturers that you're ok with them using it. If we boycott cameras that use that codec, they will have no choice but to license a different ASIC. This trend is already happening, but it's taking a long time because people keep buying these cameras and sticking external recorders on them, making the small-size pretty pointless.

Do you wanna know how much it costs them to put Pro Res HQ 4:2:2 into a camera? Less than $100 USD. So you're telling canon that you're OK with them not spending the extra $100 during the design and manufacturing process to include a decent codec. It's a moral principle to never give manufacturers who skimp like this ANY of your money. As I always say, if Blackmagic can do it with the original pocket camera, they can for shit sake do it on a multi-thousand dollar camera.

Also... 20 years? Na, it won't last that long. Very few people seem to know this, but CMOS chips actually do decay (due to heat) to the point where the dead pixel mapping can't function anymore and you start to get dead pixels showing up on screen. This won't be too much of a problem with bigger cameras with HUGE heat sync's like the Arri Alexa's or even Ursa Mini Pro. However, the smaller more compact cameras, they do have a huge problem with this. Funny enough, Canon has the worst problem with this and there are literally thousands of 5D and 5DMKII's floating around with boatloads of hours, with dead pixels that can't be mapped out. Canon also won't do anything about it past a certain threshold (year vs hours), not even if you give them money. I guess if you don't use the camera much in 20 years, maybe it would survive, but honestly with how disposable things are these days, I doubt it. Sure it's true that you could probably grab anyone's mini-DV camcorder from 20 years ago and it most likely works, but then again that was a different time.

With the speed/progress of technology, I bet the C200 will be completely out of date in 5 years. Not for resolution, but for acceptable bandwidth (and HDR technology) for commercial deliverables because that's the next big sticking point. Shooting on your own for fun, it doesn't matter... but if ya plan to do commercial work, I'd be scared.
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#54 Samuel Berger

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 12:48 AM

Ugh that is painful.  But, I do love the colour science and footage I see from the C200. 

I went through this problem last year. I ended up not buying anything as a main camera and made no progress as a filmmaker. Renting cameras would never work for me because of  the sporadic nature of my productions (mostly due to the Seattle weather).

 

What I want to try and do this year is concentrate on the writing aspect of my films. I have about five feature film ideas that I never seem to have time to finish writing. 

 

Worst case scenario, I'll shoot the movie on my BMD Ursa Mini 4K with only an Angenieux 25-250. 

 

You know, last year I shot some test footage and my favourite images came from my BMPCC. Looked a lot like S16. But I imagine it wouldn't look great blown up to a movie screen.


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#55 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 12:50 PM

You know, last year I shot some test footage and my favourite images came from my BMPCC. Looked a lot like S16. But I imagine it wouldn't look great blown up to a movie screen.


Well, if you have the money to do a theatrical release, you can afford to rent a decent camera. Also, I've seen my own pocket footage on the big screen as it's been included in a few documentaries over the years that had a very limited theatrical run and it looked fine. The last feature I cut was released in 1080p and I saw it on the big screen, it too looked fine. Remember, the vast majority of theatrical content is still finished in 2k due to the expense of 4k VFX. So yea the pocket is fine... the 4k pocket is also fine.

I mean if you're shooting your own productions, it doesn't matter how physically big the camera is really, as long as it has a decent imager and codec, the rest isn't a big deal. The problem with the original 4k blackmagic imager is FPN and sharpness, two things that make the camera unfortunately an issue to work with. Heck, the 2.5k cinema camera looks MUCH better over-all.

I do think the original pocket camera is long in the tooth these days. I got my kit in fall of 2013, so they'll be 5 years old in a few months. They're literally falling apart, mostly because I never put a cage on them (which I think is a necessity with these cameras) and I've lent them out to other people who have damaged shit over the years. Even though both cameras have loose lens mounts (Imager and lens are in line, it's just whole optical block to body is loose) and loose tripod mounts (both easy to fix) they both function totally fine. I'm pretty much done with them tho, they are phenomenal cameras for the price and they look great for what they are. However, I can't shoot anything for a client with them, which makes me as a filmmaker worthless to everyone BUT people who shoot on film exclusively.

Honestly, I think there are two solutions to this conundrum;

1) Stick with a low-end camera like the 4k pocket for a few years for fun and get your resume built due to the low cost nature of the camera and lenses.
2) Get a loan and buy a Red Dragon or Alexa XT, both are dropping in price substantially. Then buy some cheap PL mount glass like the Rokinon Xeen's to go along with.

When (if) ya move to So Cal, having a decent camera package is an instant way to get work, but there really are only two cameras people care about; Red and Alexa. Everything else is, well... for lack of a better descriptor; ignored. I have friends with C300MKII's and even F55's who can't get work with those cameras. Yet, my friends with Dragon's and Alexa XT's are flooded with work, just from owning the cameras (and advertising them on share grid and other places). I personally wouldn't invest in an Alexa Classic or Plus, 2.8k is not what people want, but the 3.2k Pro Res out of the XT I believe will be sufficient for most productions for a long time, especially if you just blow it up to 4k like so many shows do and have done in the past. I just think the Alexa color science is by far the best and everyone is after someone with an Alexa as if they're rare or something.
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#56 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 02:15 AM

"Well, if you have the money to do a theatrical release, you can afford to rent a decent camera ..."

 

Yeah, that's what I reckon. Save up your money and rent, if you want to shoot a feature. Unless you want something to practice on. If I got serious I'd go to one of the rental houses.


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#57 David Peterson

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:29 PM

What I want to try and do this year is concentrate on the writing aspect of my films. I have about five feature film ideas that I never seem to have time to finish writing. 

 

Worst case scenario, I'll shoot the movie on my BMD Ursa Mini 4K with only an Angenieux 25-250. 

 

It would be a good combo, a moderately so so camera but paired with epic glass! (you'll have something to go wider than 25mm though?)


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#58 Samuel Berger

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 10:05 PM

It would be a good combo, a moderately so so camera but paired with epic glass! (you'll have something to go wider than 25mm though?)

 

This kids' Youtube show is shot with the Ursa Mini 4K and Angenieux 25-250. 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't own any other PL lenses.


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#59 Will Montgomery

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

Can my Fuji 6x9 cameras shoot movies too?  If they did, it would be IMAX quality!!!!

 

There's a camera that shoots 65mm and look like a Eyemo...just a little bigger...can't remember what it's called but probably about 15 seconds per 100 foot load!

 

Since this camera only has 8-12 exposures, you'd get a half of a second of glorious IMAX quality.


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#60 Samuel Berger

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 08:36 PM

Oh look, it's now postponed to November.


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