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BRITISH FILM INDUSTRY PART II


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#41 Tim Terner

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:23 PM

Daniel Radcliff's mum didn't want her teenage son working in a city associated with prostitution and drugs.......


I live in Prague and it's comforting to think that Sean Connery's, Tom Cruise's, and Roman Polanski's mothers didn't think the same way
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#42 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:29 PM

I picked the newspaper and I looked at the movie theaters section of the Rome edition: ironically, most theaters are showing the few (bad) italian movies that came out during the last few weeks.


So then its better then in Britian, at my local Odeon 8 films showing, 7 US films and one i assume is British - Mr Bean's Holiday.

I live in Prague and it's comforting to think that Sean Connery's, Tom Cruise's, and Roman Polanski's mothers didn't think the same way


Well obviously their mothers are better informed. Perhaps Mrs Radcliffe reads the Daily Mail.
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#43 Tony Brown

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:30 PM

> hey Phil, in what way exactly were things so different?

Difficult to put a finger on, but for the same level of crew, just vastly more competence and experience. After all, you can make at least a bit of a living in microbudget independent filmmaking in LA, and it shows. In the UK, the only way to make a living in film and TV is to be one of the top 1%. The result is that in London people spend one day a week - two or three a month - working in film, and the rest of it doing a McJob. It's hardly surprising the talent's better. The crew were better, the performances were better. Not to knock the people I work with here, I have my favourite people, but assuming the fairly randomly-selected people I grabbed off Craigslist are representative of the average, the average is almost as high as the very top peak here.

The attitude is better; it's more can-do, less stressful even when things go wrong. Less blame-related; more about what's wrong than who's wrong. There's less nastiness, no snide asides. I'm sure these things change when you get to higher level production, but there will always be one big difference: in the UK, people working for pocket money on tiny projects know that's almost certainly about the best they'll ever get. In the US, they know there's somewhere to go. That bitterness, the knowledge of inevitable failure, is very clear even in fairly high level UK crews, because at the end of the day even on the best jobs in the country, we know that there will never be the big theatrical features, there will never be more than a hand-to-mouth financial existence off this stuff.

Yes, a lot of it comes down to national culture, but at the end of the day UK crew are usually miserable because they have a very good reason to be.


I guess I'm lucky I dont work with the same people you do Phil. I can honestly say the English crew I work with are extremely good natured, some of the funniest people I've ever met

I'll tell you exactly why there was more competence and experience 20 years ago, as I said in an earlier post, there were less of us. During the 80's it was extremely unusual to turn up on a shoot and there be somebody there you didn't know. Now you're relieved to see a couple of familiar faces.

Craigslist. Who? Try the mainstream diary services.......
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#44 Max Jacoby

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:42 PM

(since creativity rarely works well in state funded environments).

Sorry Adam, but that's just not true.

We are not talking about the Soviet government making propaganda films here, but about Pan-European funding bodies like Eurimages as well as filmfunds of various countries, whose aim it is to encourage a cinema that is less commercially oriented, but has artist and cultural merit.

It is in purely market driven places like Hollywood where creativity suffers, because there are enormous pressures to make a 'hit'. Where actors get cast because of their box-office drawing power and not because they are right for the part. Where they start shooting because they have a release date already, but no script yet. Where they avoid 'downbeat' endings because it could impact the box-office negatively. Where the producer has more power than the director.




I live in Prague and it's comforting to think that Sean Connery's, Tom Cruise's, and Roman Polanski's mothers didn't think the same way

Yeah, well we all know how Roman Polanski turned out... ;)
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#45 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:48 PM

> I guess I'm lucky I dont work with the same people you do Phil.

Tony, you are part of that top 1% I was talking about.

Yes, you are lucky. Very, very lucky. Also amazingly talented, but as we've seen, that isn't actually much of a contributing factor here.

You know what pisses me off? A while ago, someone was asking me (hah!) about how to improve and thereby get on in the industry, and I had to honestly tell the poor girl not to bother. Go buy a PD150 and practice wobbly camerawork, because it's all you'll ever do in this place.

Phil
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#46 Max Jacoby

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 04:59 PM

A while ago, someone was asking me (hah!)

She obviously didn't know of your reputation as most miserable person on this board ;)
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#47 Matthew Buick

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:07 PM

HEE HEE!!! :lol:
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#48 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:14 PM

Well, she could have asked you, Max, but you don't actually live here, and you've made it very clear in the past that despite where you claim to come from you know little or nothing about the situation here!

Phil
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#49 Jaan Shenberger

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:16 PM

Sorry Adam, but that's just not true.

We are not talking about the Soviet government making propaganda films here, but about Pan-European funding bodies like Eurimages as well as filmfunds of various countries, whose aim it is to encourage a cinema that is less commercially oriented, but has artist and cultural merit.


i have to agree with Max. a great example is the film board of canada and its legendary animation program. simply put, canada is the best in the world in animation and has produced numerous incredible works of genuine art in that medium, largely thanks to state subsidies.

on the flipside is the flimsy american "independent" film industry/community. it kinda runs on capitalistic trickle-down reaganomics... all the low-brow and ad/commercial projects result in enough work that some people/prodco's can save up funds & network in order to work on their personal side projects. but there is virtually no state money anywhere to fund film/cinema projects of artistic merit, and when there is, it's a general arts grant that's priced out for painters/sculptors, meaning the sums are nearly irrelevant in regards to film budgets. it's no wonder that more and more film students are using their thesis projects to make slick spec commercials for sneakers or soft drinks, rather than making something of artistic merit... and every year it seems to get worse, and it just grosses me out.

and to be honest, if you compare the two, i'd say that canadian animation has american "independent cinema" clearly beat when it comes to overall artistic merit and output... though it's worth mentioning that almost no one anywhere has ever seen all that great canadian animation work.

Edited by Jaan Shenberger, 03 April 2007 - 05:20 PM.

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#50 Ken Cangi

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:20 PM

though it's worth mentioning that almost no one anywhere has ever seen all that great canadian animation work.

300
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#51 Jaan Shenberger

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:27 PM

300


though i meant more along the lines of stuff you'll see here http://nfb.ca/animation/objanim/en/, your post brings up a great point...

the state-funded efforts of the film board has indirectly resulted in a growing and successful commercial animation, post & vfx industry in canada (aided by the tax breaks attracting US productions).
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#52 Max Jacoby

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:58 PM

Well, she could have asked you, Max, but you don't actually live here,

As a matter of fact I do and you're welcome to come to Canada Water to see for yourself.
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#53 Richard Boddington

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:24 PM

though i meant more along the lines of stuff you'll see here http://nfb.ca/animation/objanim/en/, your post brings up a great point...

the state-funded efforts of the film board has indirectly resulted in a growing and successful commercial animation, post & vfx industry in canada (aided by the tax breaks attracting US productions).


People like me are working hard in Canada to see that all that state funding goes away. Why should my tax dollars subsidize other people while I get nothing?

R,
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#54 Jaan Shenberger

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:43 PM

People like me are working hard in Canada to see that all that state funding goes away. Why should my tax dollars subsidize other people while I get nothing?

R,


if you think those animators are getting rich from their nfb grants or they aren't working hard to complete their projects, then you're crazy. i know of animators who've worked on big nfb-sponsored projects and the pay isn't really competitive-- they take the gigs because they wanna work on something with merit that'll turn out good, rather than make bank working on a sani-flush commercial.

would you rather the nfb be funding movies about creatures chasing bikini-clad women around an abandoned prison? last time i checked the video store, there were plenty of those to choose from. besides, you can always write your equivalent of a congressman and let them know how you feel about it.

the nfb contributing to the growth of the canadian anim/post/vfx industry has been largely via education & inspiration, not actual funding.

Edited by Jaan Shenberger, 03 April 2007 - 06:45 PM.

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#55 Ken Cangi

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:07 PM

People like me are working hard in Canada to see that all that state funding goes away. Why should my tax dollars subsidize other people while I get nothing?

R,

With all due respect, Richard, this is the same attitude that has forty-five million hard-working people without healthcare in the United States. It is, in my opinion, a narrow-minded way of looking at things. From where I'm standing, public funding of the film industry can only help you in the long run. The more business that comes to Canada, because of its reputation for high caliber talent, the more opportunities there will be for individuals like yourself.

Unlike in the United States, competitive climbers throughout many European countries are government funded. Consequently, Europe has a much higher concentration of top-flite climbers. I see this in many aspects of life.

Edited by Ken Cangi, 03 April 2007 - 07:10 PM.

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#56 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:09 PM

Canada Water? Christ.

[Note to Americans: Canada Water is an extremely upscale part of the east London docks redevelopment, filled with high-class condos that are worth eight to twelve times what I make in a year, and up. It's not quite Beverly Hills, but it is next door to the bit of London that's effectively Beverly Hills. You have to be exceedingly rich to live there.]

Oh well, now we know why you can afford all those short films!

Phil
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#57 Richard Boddington

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:47 PM

"would you rather the nfb be funding movies about creatures chasing bikini-clad women around an abandoned prison? last time i checked the video store, there were plenty of those to choose from. besides, you can always write your equivalent of a congressman and let them know how you feel about it."

Ha! Ha! Very funny, oh hilarious. You guys make me laugh, move here and pay the taxes. Until then, shut the *bleep* up!! Guess what, I pay 14% on every thing I buy here, what do you pay, 5-7%?

The very fact that you don't know what the Canadian equivalent of a congressman is says a lot.

And yes, I would prefer if the NFB made films about monsters chasing bikini clad women around an abandoned prison. At least people would watch it. Which is more than can be said for what the NFB and CBC churn out now. Look film is not art, it's a business, period end of story. You make the product, then you sell the product. You guys think Hollywood is a non-profit organization? Who among you can afford to make movies that will never make a return? None of you, so a few of you want tax paying suckers like me to foot the bill. Well forget it, sick of it.

Hey Ken if you want to move to Canada and pay Canadian taxes so you can have free healthcare we'd be glad to have you. I lived in Utah for five years, it's one of the lowest taxed jurisdictions in the industrialized world. Six months of living in Canada Ken would have you running back across the border never to return. You talk the talk, but would you walk the walk?

R,

And for the record Jaan Shenberger the monsters never chase bikini clad women around the prison, they are fully clothed while being chased.
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#58 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:51 PM

And for the record Jaan Shenberger the monsters never chase bikini clad women around the prison, they are fully clothed while being chased.


Just make sure the DVD box cover implies that the women are semi-clothed...

Miramax used to do that weird thing of using racier cover art for the VHS version compared to the DVD version, so a relatively tame movie like "Picture Bride" looked like an art film on DVD but an erotic thriller on VHS.
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#59 Richard Boddington

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:04 PM

Just make sure the DVD box cover implies that the women are semi-clothed...

Miramax used to do that weird thing of using racier cover art for the VHS version compared to the DVD version, so a relatively tame movie like "Picture Bride" looked like an art film on DVD but an erotic thriller on VHS.


You're always the voice of reason David....pointing out the more important matters at hand :D

The new woman being added to the movie provides some serious female bling. Hint, Deal Or No Deal model turns actress! I'm sure she'll be used on the cover and little else. Well maybe the new "wolf beast" in the BG.

Yes, my movie will absolutely enrage the Canadian film "elite". If I don't get slammed by the Toronto Star and the CBC I have failed in my goals. The more they hate it, the more DVD renters will like it.

R,
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#60 Ken Cangi

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:04 AM

Hey Ken if you want to move to Canada and pay Canadian taxes so you can have free healthcare we'd be glad to have you. I lived in Utah for five years, it's one of the lowest taxed jurisdictions in the industrialized world. Six months of living in Canada Ken would have you running back across the border never to return. You talk the talk, but would you walk the walk?

R,

I lived in Montreal for a year, and my wife and I are seriously considering moving back there or to BC. She is a dual citizen of Canada and the United States. She and her family were born and raised in Montreal, and they still live there. I realize that the taxes are higher, although I have weighed the quality of life, politics, and healthcare against living in the US, and this place is becoming less able to measure up, IMO.

As for Utah, I have only been in SLC for two seasons, and I can't wait to leave here. What this place gains in a lower cost of living, it dreadfully lacks in cultural diversity and general quality of living, unless you are a child-breeding, right wing, religious fundamentalist. The mountain landscape here is beautiful, although in no way more so than BC. I have lived in more than a dozen major cities in this country alone - including NYC, Miami, L.A., Altanta, and my hometown (Boston), so my comparison is not based in ignorance.

Anyway, none of this was meant to provoke an argument with you, Richard. I am just trying to make the point that Canada has some distinct advantages when it comes to addressing the bigger picture. The United States has become, IMO, a society of instant gratification and self indulgence. It is every man and woman for his and herself. I am not going to go off on a political diatribe, but I think the state of this country is pretty clear to anyone who has been paying attention for the past few decades.

Edited by Ken Cangi, 04 April 2007 - 12:08 AM.

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