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AJA Video 4k camera - Cion


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#21 Freya Black

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

I started with the P2 system in 2005 but I hardly ever use it anymore.To be honest, the P2 cards and camera paid for themselves several times over so I should not complain. Panasonic's tech and media format never once failed me either. I just wish I could re-purpose the cards in an on-board recorder or something.

 

You sold your HPX?

 

Maybe you should sell your P2 cards. There are still cameras out there that use the P2 format and you can find a new home for them rather than have them collecting dust on a shelf! :)

 

You probably won't get $8000 for them however. ;)

 

Freya


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#22 Tim Tyler

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:31 PM

I still have the HPX and the cards. It's makes a good run-n-gun b-roll camera when I need that, which ends up being about 2 days a year.


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#23 Michael LaVoie

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

 

Seems it does do 120fps

 

"4K (4096x2160) progressive 23.98/24/25/29.97/30/50/59.94/60/119.88/120"

According to AJA there currently is no way to record 120fps or RAW in any frame rate without being tethered to a computer via thunderbolt.  The spec sheet is seriously misleading.  I don't think this is intentional on their part.  I have suggested that they reword all of that so it's more clear.

 

In all likelihood there will be future updates as time goes on and more features hopefully but for right now, it's 4444 4K at up to 30fps and 422 4K at up to 60fps.  Raw is an afterthought that is possible but more theoretical at this point since someone else apparently has to write the debayering software application or create the device.

 

The upside is that the signal is promised to be of such a high quality that Raw is unnecessary in most cases.  But that remains to be seen.  Just wish they could have included the 120fps feature at a lower bit rate or resolution at least.  Perhaps in a future update.


Edited by Michael LaVoie, 07 July 2014 - 01:57 PM.

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#24 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

To be honest, nobody really has to write much software to do debayers anymore. A front end, maybe, but there's perfectly decent open code for actually doing the heavy lifting.


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#25 Alex Fuerst

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:45 PM

I'm very much looking forward to using (hopefully buying) the CION.

 

I think I've figured out a more cost effective configuration of the CION by forgoing the AJA Pak media cards and reader and get the Atomos Shogun monitor/recorder for roughly the same price. The Shogun will record 4K at least at 30p to ProRes HQ or CinemaDNG RAW on 2 SSDs or SSHDs of my choosing. Now I have my most used frame rates and preferred codecs plus a great field monitor. (You could go with an Odyssey 7Q for a more money but then your stuck using another proprietary media card) Zacuto's Gratical OLED EVF looks like a promising addition for the CION but that's another $3k.

 

After talking in person with the guys from AJA a few times they have yet to confirm anything about the ISO range and also if there will be an ability to use different picture profiles such as Sony's S-LOG 2 or Canon's C-Log. They have axed the ability for 3D LUTs however.

 

It was disappointing to see that there is only one media card slot rather than two for hot swappable media.

 

At the end of the day you can spend less than $15k and have a killer 4K camera that feels and acts like a real camera. The Blackmagic URSA is much cheaper but has HUGE drawbacks for me and my usual production needs. For me, the CION is the sub $20k camera to have (final conclusion will be made once we get the final production specs and actual footage to view).


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#26 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:01 AM

Too bad they didn't use SxS cards and be able to shoot 120fps ProRes4444 like a camera I seem to be used to.... and save the super expensive Codex cards... oh uh I mean Cion cards for RAW.

 

Out of all the NAB new cams it did look the most interesting but I think the external recording and the proprietary media and no 120fps internal puts it into a odd spot in the market.


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#27 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:24 AM

Couldn't agree more. The proprietary media, to me, makes it an obvious choice to slap an external recorder on it. With many recorders you'd save money after the first two cards (and saving money isn't the only reason to avoid vendor lockin flash). This makes it a weird value proposition.


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#28 Michael LaVoie

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:52 AM

It's still cheaper than a Sony F5 with the same amount of media, batteries and accessories.  Or a Red Scarlet.  Or even an FS700/Odyssey combo.  The tradeoff for now appears to be higher frame rates and RAW but both of these are likely additions down the line.  The Shogun may work.  

 

I've no doubt that the phone calls AJA will get from Convergent, Atomos, etc. will likely get AJA thinking of how to provide those features themselves that their competitors are offering in 3rd party recorders.  The Shogun and Odyssey are competitors to the Kipro.  Unless AJA comes out with something new soon The Kipro will seem out of date especially if it can't do what other recorders can do with their own camera.  


Edited by Michael LaVoie, 17 July 2014 - 08:53 AM.

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#29 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

I'm not sure "their media is cheaper than Sony" is much of a recommendation.

 

P


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#30 Michael LaVoie

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

It is a selling point though.  Since the camera is in that arena.  Moreso than the blackmagic DSLR category.


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#31 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:24 AM

Well, if it genuinely is in that arena, then that'll be great. The same sensor in the Blackmagic 4K camera certainly isn't in F55 territory, or probably not even F5 territory, but better support electronics might quite legitimately make all the difference. They would have to make quite a significant difference, frankly, for it to compete in the F5/C500 arena. Though it's considerably cheaper than them, so perhaps we shouldn't expect direct competiton.

 

I collared the chief technical guy at NAB and berated him quite severely about putting HD windowing into it, so it can be used in an ENG format too. Here's hoping.

 

P


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#32 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 01:40 PM

Here's a link to the Cion brochure  http://www.aja.com/a...rochure_WEB.pdf


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#33 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 03:37 PM

Video images from the Cion:

 

https://www.aja.com/...ucts/cion/video


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#34 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 09:39 AM

There has been a bit of a debate about the recent demo video. This link beings up the points raised: http://www.dvinfo.ne...-demo-reel.html


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#35 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 09:53 AM

I handled one at IBC. Looks like quite a nice little package, but buyers need to bear in mind that the base price doesn't include viewfinding, glass, power, or storage, which will very certainly double or triple the cost.

 

P


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#36 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:56 AM

I gather the look in the video an in camera picture profile, but is ungraded


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#37 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:09 PM

The shipping date for the Cion at the end of December has been announced:

 

http://www.redsharkn...-date-announced


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#38 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 04:50 AM

A few more details on FD Times:

 

http://www.fdtimes.c...-ship-december/


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#39 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 06:57 PM

The Cion is now shipping:

http://www.fdtimes.c...on-ships-today/

https://www.aja.com/


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#40 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:17 PM

Here's a FD article on a tour of the Cion Factory with interviews with interviews with AJA President Nick Rashby and CION designer Jon Thorn

http://www.fdtimes.c...n-factory-tour/


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