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Digital editing of 16mm footage


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#1 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:27 PM

Hi,

 

I've sent a roll of 7203 16mm off to be processed, then it's being scanned at 2.5k in Melbourne, and is also going to colour graded there. I'm getting it back, probably in ProRes4444, on a usb stick.

 

All I really want to do is put in some simple fade ins and fade outs, move sequence of shots around, shorten some takes, delete some takes, and cut out some fogged frames etc. Then maybe try putting a soundtrack on, and at one point jiggling things a bit to try and approximately sync-up a close up of a guitarist's fingers plucking the strings with his recording (we used a metronome on location, and a pre-determined tempo).

 

Can all these things be done on the free version of Davinci Resolve? It's to be used on a PC (not a Mac). This might sound ludicrously simple but I've never done digital editing before - I've done lots of real film editing though with splicer, tape etc.

 

Any advice would be really helpful. If you know of something better or just as good, or not very expensive, please chime in and let me know.

 

Thanks


Edited by Jon O'Brien, 08 November 2017 - 06:30 PM.

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#2 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:56 PM

I also want to crop the image to 2.35:1 or thereabouts. It was shot on S-16.


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#3 Samuel Berger

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:59 PM

The short answer is yes it can be done. Google the tutorials for each of the things you want to do.


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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:32 PM

Yep DaVinci is probably your best bet as its free and has all the necessary coloring tools.
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#5 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:27 PM

Been doing some research. Davinci gets a big tick for usefulness, quality, and for being free, however apparently there's a big problem if you use windows PC.

 

ProRes4444 is meant to be used with Apple/Mac computers.

 

The film scanning company in Melbourne said this: "ProRes4444 is the standard format that I deliver. For editing purposes (and for higher quality) I would suggest editing Prores444 files. I can export to more or less any format you desire so do let me know if you prefer something besides ProRes4444."

 

We will be using a PC/windows computer.

 

A friend who is helping me out, and who has done some video editing, said this: "I take files as they come AVI, AVCHD etc and output them into MPEG4 to upload on youtube. I could download Davinci Resolve 14, however ProRes4444 are Apple files. There could be big problems trying to convert these files to windows. I could not guarantee that I could get these files to even work."

 

Can anyone advise further on this ProRes4444/windows incompatibility? Should I ask the telecine/scanning guy to export to some other format, other than ProRes4444? If so, can you suggest a format? This is a first reel so it doesn't have to be perfect.

 

In the longer term, if getting more serious at this, is it better in digital editing to go with a Mac computer? Thanks for any advice.


Edited by Jon O'Brien, 08 November 2017 - 08:35 PM.

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#6 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 04:41 AM

Encoding to ProRes on Windows can be an issue. This thread on the BlackMagic Resolve forum does discuss ProRes 4444 EQ and Windows in a message towards the end .  

https://forum.blackm...hp?f=21&t=38222

 

I would check on the current situation with Resolve !4


Edited by Brian Drysdale, 09 November 2017 - 04:42 AM.

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#7 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

Can anyone advise further on this ProRes4444/windows incompatibility? Should I ask the telecine/scanning guy to export to some other format, other than ProRes4444? If so, can you suggest a format? This is a first reel so it doesn't have to be perfect.

 

 

There is no issue with ProRes on Windows, unless you want to render the final product to ProRes. Then you need to make sure you're using an application that can do it. Resolve cannot, for licensing reasons. But it can read the files and you can work with them in resolve, you just need to render to something else - Avid DNXHR is one option, but there are many others. 

 

If you need to make ProRes files, the least expensive way to do it using a properly licensed ProRes encoder, is to do a one-month rental of Scratch. If your windows machine can run Resolve, it can run Scratch. The user interface is a little tricky to learn, but it's great for doing ProRes encoding. This is what we did until we upgraded our Resolve to the full Linux version, which is licensed to make ProRes files.


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#8 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:52 PM

Update: Werner at Neglab says "All looks good." Neg report says "No apparent camera problems. Exposure and focus looks good." Will give further updates. Thanks everyone, decided to go with the ProRes4444, with Quicktime Player and Davinci Resolve. Will report back how I go with it.


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#9 Samuel Berger

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:59 PM

Hi Jon, any updates on your project? Hope all is going well.


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#10 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 01:38 AM

Hi Samuel, I'm still waiting to hear back from the scanner. Just hope the film turned out well - waiting with bated breath. Been really busy also, so looking forward to getting back to this project soon. Will post as soon as I see what the footage looks like. Cheers, Jon


Edited by Jon O'Brien, 27 November 2017 - 01:39 AM.

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#11 Prashantt Rai

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:15 AM

whats the equivalent of iMovie on PC? maybe you can use something simple for your needs. I have edited a couple of super 16 projects on iMovie.


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#12 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:56 AM

Windows Movie Maker is probably the equivalent to iMovie on a PC, however, there are more powerful free NLEs than that available on a PC.


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#13 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

Got the reel back, downloaded Davinci Resolve, and have watched it. Looks okay, nothing is out of focus, the shots turned out pretty much as I planned them. Many shots are overexposed by about 1 stop, as I had expected they would be, after finding out I'd bumped the ISO dial on my light meter (first big lesson learned). Big thing now is working out Davinci. When I attempt to play the reel in Davinci, it starts and stops and jumps ahead every now and then. Probably because the file is large and my computer maybe can't handle it. It's a PC. However, I need to figure out how to slow the play back down. The film was shot at 24 fps but seems to always play back in Davinci at something like 34 fps. Everything is too fast.

 

I asked the scanner to color grade the footage, and he asked what look I wanted, and I said high contrast, like an old film print. That's exactly how it looks, so he did a good job on that. But I've now decided i'd like to warm up the look, more color saturation and lower contrast possibly. So that's another challenge I have to work on. The film seems a bit dusty. On the whole, a pretty good result and not bad for a first effort.


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#14 Samuel Berger

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:35 PM

Good to hear! Any screenshots?


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#15 Volker Bendt

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:25 PM

Hi Jon,

it's good to hear that your first film with the RX5 turned out well.

As the seller of camera and lens, somehow I feel kind of responsable and I'm happy that the result seems OK.

Good luck with your further projects,

Cheers,

Volker


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#16 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:52 PM

Thanks Volker - good to hear from you. You gave me a very good price on the camera and lens so I'm really grateful for that. I'm still slowly trying to figure out Davinci resolve. Hopefully soon will get a screen shot posted here. One problem with the first reel is that it goes by so fast and many of the shots could have been a little longer in duration. A steep learning curve to be back in the saddle after 3 decades, but it's good. I was pleasantly surprised at how good the Nikon 50mm came out looking, too. Quite sharp and nice colour.


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#17 tom lombard

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:11 PM

Also looking forward to seeing some footage as I'm using Nikon series E lenses on a Bolex EL.  With my first short, I had an actual editor and I sat with him as he did some rough edits with Resolve.  I had never edited and was totally unfamiliar with Resolve other than that bit of watching him.  Then he was too busy to do any additional editing (welcome to the world of no budget indie filmmaking) so I downloaded Resolve and just jumped in.  It turned out to be so easy & enjoyable that I've taken a real liking to editing.  Between using the manual & online resources, it isn't difficult to quickly pick up the basics & expand with your specific needs.  Enjoy the process!


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#18 Mark Dunn

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:45 AM

 
DSC03891.jpg

Edited by Mark Dunn, 04 December 2017 - 05:48 AM.

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#19 Jon O'Brien

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:55 PM

Looks great Mark. Just the other day I was thinking to myself perhaps the best way to get back into filmmaking is to get a projector and do it the old fashioned way. I need to see the actual light shining through living film. I'm finding this digital editing and grading tough - I think maybe because I'm not really into that side of it because I'm not so inspired by what I see. Still, with time, I might develop a love for the digital side of things.

 

Now, here's a question I honestly need help with, if anyone can advise. I'm sort of lost in the woods and don't know what I'm doing with this Davinci Resolve. When the film was processed it went straight to the scanner who scanned it at 2.5k and I asked him to color grade it as well. I asked for a contrasty, old print look, and got what I asked for. I received the reel back from him on a usb as a single file of the graded footage.

 

My question is, since I'm working on that file that I got from the scanner, am I sort of stuck with the grading as he made it, or can I subtract all the grading he did, and get back to the original full information as received by the scanning computer - in other words, start from scratch with the footage? I suspect not. I'm now looking for, as much as possible, a warm 'Kodachrome' look.

 

I find the graded image somewhat 'astringent' or 'acrid' looking, contrasty, low color warmth/saturation. It has a dry and 'leached' look (a chemist's term). Do I really need to get this neg scanned again, or give up and try again with a new reel? I'm not criticising the scanner by the way - he gave me precisely what I asked for. I'm just very picky I suppose, having now seen the footage. 

 

The other problem is that I can't figure out how to compensate for the overexposed shots. I've tried doodling away with the color wheels, gain and so on, playing with the R,G and B, but the images are still overexposed. One or two shots are quite nice. Maybe give up on this first reel and start thinking of buying some more film.


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