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CORE DROPUT!!!!


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#1 Brian Rose

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 11:30 AM

Well, it happened. I was transferring a 400ft core load to the can for processing, and the f*#king core dropped out. Fortunately the film stayed together, but I couldn't get the core back in. So, I trimmed a little bit of the leader (it had been exposed anyways when I loaded the camera), so it could fit back in. Now, however, the core sits loose within it. Is there any salvation? This film is VERY important (its for a demo as part of my film school ap), and I would pull my hair out if I lost it. Could I tranfer the film to four 100foot cores?
Best,
BR
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#2 BritLoader

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 11:46 AM

Aargh,

I hate loosing the core, it is just the worst thing that can happen on set.

However, from my understanding the lab should be able to process a roll without a central core, after all not all cameras roll on to a core (the arri 16 SRs for instance).

I would absolutely hold off cutting a neg, you never know where you are cutting, it could be right in the middle of a vital take.

My advice would be to call the lab directly, ask them if they need a core to be able to process, and then assuming they can, mark the can on the label, around the outside and on the sheets "NO CORE !!".

I would be suprised if you had a problem
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#3 Rob Featherstone

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 12:06 PM

Well, it happened. I was transferring a 400ft core load to the can for processing, and the f*#king core dropped out. Fortunately the film stayed together, but I couldn't get the core back in. So, I trimmed a little bit of the leader (it had been exposed anyways when I loaded the camera), so it could fit back in. Now, however, the core sits loose within it. Is there any salvation? This film is VERY important (its for a demo as part of my film school ap), and I would pull my hair out if I lost it. Could I tranfer the film to four 100foot cores?
Best,
BR



When I was working as an ac I had this happen many times. I have also gone into a jammed mag (in the chaning tent of course) and pulled out spaghetti like film and rewound it on a core and sent it in to the lab.

Also some mags (like arris) take up onto an air core so it shouldn't be a problem.

But I would make a note on the can for the lab to see.

-Rob
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#4 andrewbuchanan

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 12:52 PM

Brian,

Don't worry. This really isn't a problem. It happens to everyone from time to time. Your lab should be fine processing without the core. Just let them know on your camera reports or the outside of the can (so they know when they prepare to process that load). Good luck.
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#5 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:22 PM

Oh, come on, it's not even use to tell them anything. It has no matter at all, in any way !
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#6 Brian Rose

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:38 PM

Thank goodness, your tips are so reassuring! When I realized the core had dropped out, I was about to send my fist through the wall!
Best,
BR
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#7 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 03:15 AM

No, there's nothing to worry about...

When you do a reverse shot, or a registration pin test, you have uncored bits, and don't have to notify or anything.

As BritLoader said, many cameras don't load on a core, esp. 35 mm cameras...
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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 03:44 AM

As BritLoader said, many cameras don't load on a core, esp. 35 mm cameras...


Hi,

The point to remember is that the lab needs a core when processing. If the person at the lab is stressed they may throw away more of your leader to make their life easy!

Stephen
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#9 Dominic Case

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 05:36 AM

ALWAYS warn the lab - on the camera sheet or on the can label or both. In the very unlikely event that there is a problem in processing, you then have the evidence that they were warned.

All rolls of neg are rewound by hand by the lab in the process of making them up into larger rolls to load on the processing machine. Having a loose core won't be a problem - but it;s still good to let them know.

You did right to tear off a turn or two to get the core back in. Don't ever ship exposed neg without a core. Sure, the lab can insert one to load on the rewinder, but the roll will be sloppy without a core, and may get distorted during shipping - leading to cinch marks on the image.


When 200 ft drops out is when you start to sweat. I heard of one DoP who wouldn't hire a loader who hadn't had that happen - because it doesn't happen to many people twice.
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#10 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:15 AM

Hi,

> you then have the evidence that they were warned.

So? What're you or they going to do? Reshoot it, and the lab isn't paying for that either way...

Phil
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#11 Dominic Case

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:41 AM

So? What're you or they going to do? Reshoot it, and the lab isn't paying for that either way...

Oh, come on Phil!

Contrary to some views, things actually go wrong very rarely, and when they do, the problem is evenmore unlikely to require a reshoot.

More likely, there is a higher-than-usual level of sparkle or dirt on the negative. It will be fixed up: possibly by a rewash of the neg, possibly by wet gate printing, possibly by a box of tricks on the telecine, possibly by hours of dustbusting and spot removal in the DI suite. That's in increasing order of cost.

If the lab has clearly caused the problem, it will often fix it up - in house. If it's clear that someone else has caused the problem, then the lab will still fix it up: but obviously it will look elsewhere for coverage of the costs involved. That's where conflicts have to be resolved. If you send in a damaged negative and don't alert the lab to it, then I would expect the lab to feel that some share of cost of the repair should be borne by the production.

And if it IS a reshoot, that is what you have insurance for. And while the lab may not be paying for your reshoot up front (after all, the charges for processing don't vary according to the cost of the shoot - there's no liability for that) you can be sure that the insurance company calls on ther lab pretty smartly.
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#12 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:22 AM

There is something I really don't get here...

1) There is never a core with arriflex BL 35 nor 16/S16 SR cameras

2) Stephen says the lab needs a core ? Ok they need one to roll the processed neg on, but they have ones, I don't see why it would be a need that the exposed neg, in the can, should be on a core ????

3)

If the person at the lab is stressed they may throw away more of your leader to make their life easy!

(Stephen)

What's the link with the presence of a core ????

Actually, when I was at Eclair in Paris, I went to see the guy that does this job (unpacking the can and prepare the rolls for processing). You know we sometimes are a bit anxious when we have the end of a shot close to (or even a shot that wasn't finished before) the end of the roll.

The ACs who tought me the job when I began as a loader had told me to write "protect the end" on the can in such cases.

Well, the guy at the lab told me "it's useless, we always cut as less as we need"

4) What kind of problem can occure in the case we are talking about in this thread : "the core is missing" ???? More dust - as Dominic says - ??? I don't see why....

Ok if the beginning of a shot is close to the beginning of the roll, but one is supposed to let a few meters when loading the mag and the camera in head of the roll and if there is a problem, once again, I don't see the link with a core being ther or not...
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:34 AM

3) (Stephen)

What's the link with the presence of a core ????


Hi,

Its more an issue with 16mm, if the centre of the film falls on the floor there is added dirt. If the can gets badly handled the film may not stay round. Then there is a possibly of slight negative marks.

I was taught to always remove the core in the 1970's. However now telecine's pick up so much more than in the past, I try to to everything to reduce physical negative handling. I complained to the lab about dirt a couple of years ago. There response was a core will help!

Stephen
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#14 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:48 AM

if the centre of the film falls on the floor there is added dirt. If the can gets badly handled the film may not stay round. Then there is a possibly of slight negative marks.


All right ! I get that !

It's not the same problem... Though there are linked, ok !

I tell you what, the fact there is no core on the arri mag can be a a cause for that ! The beginnig can sort of stay linked to the middle of the mag, though you unlocked it, so that when you take the roll off, the film begins to unroll. The first 1000' mag I unloaded (35 BL), 17 years ago, did that to me ! In the changing bag, it doesn't fall on the floor, but there you get meters of film "out of the roll" What a pain ! Yeah, you sweat when you put the film back in !

I think it's the kind of thing you do when you're a beginner, once in your life !

I don't believe it is something normal or credible that it happens to the guy at the lab when he takes the roll out the black bag... But, hey, ok now I understand something can happen, there...
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#15 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:50 AM

I have been using Collapsible cores forever. Never had a lab problem or lost a foot of film. Cores on the take upside cause problems-noise/un even spooling. When you lock the lever down on a collapsical core you know the film is not comimg off until you want it to. It is a problem when you drop a roll in the bag, one of the biggest problems is your hands get sweaty and stick to the emulsion, using a pair of lintless editing gloves prevent this problemCore.jpg

Edited by asparaco, 15 November 2005 - 10:51 AM.

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#16 Mitch Gross

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:53 PM

When using collapsable cores I always feel it is best to insert a core into the empty space. This keeps the film from unwinding from within, which can lead to some scratching and make it hard from the lab guy to put it on a roller to load into flats or directly into the processor. So if the core drops out just stick it back in, no big deal.

And by the way, never tape the film to the core. Dominic can tell you what pains that can cause.
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#17 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 02:29 PM

As long as we're on the subject of Dropped Core stories, I had to fix another AC's mistake once...he totally panicked and the entire 400' turned into spaghetti in the bag. Actually it was more like corkscrew pasta. He was freaking out so I offered to get in there instead...it took me almost an hour to wind it all back onto the core but I did it, to the utter amazement of the camera operator, who was convinced we were screwed. Some of it was a little scratched and cinched but the rest turned out fine.

If you have trouble getting a core into the middle of a roll, one way to handle it is to sort of sneak the core in there sideways and gently settle it in, rather than trying ?o put it straight in there.

And yeah, don't panic. Keep a straight face in the bag and don't let them see the sweat on your back...nobody but you knows what's going on in there, so you might as well keep it that way. B)
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#18 Mitch Gross

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:45 PM

nobody but you knows what's going on in there, so you might as well keep it that way. B)


I once had a funny producer walk up to me as I was working away with my hands in the bag.

"Hmmn, that reminds me that I need to make a gynacologist appointment."

There's really no comeback to that one.
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#19 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:43 PM

Hi,

Threatening to tickle a ticklish loader is probably best left for when they don't have anything too critical in the bag. Or when they've transgressed most horribly somehow.

Good to see you around the forum again, Mitch.

Phil
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#20 Hans Engstrom

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 08:47 PM

Sent aprox 300 rolls to labs without a core this summer (filmed with sr3). Not a single problem on any of the rolls. About the rolls unwinding in the tent, not a funny story, but allways keep your head cool and remember that as long as you keep your hands in the tent no light will flash the film.
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