Jump to content


Photo

Kodak 65mm Black and White Film


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 19 November 2005 - 05:34 AM

Does Kodak manufacture 65mm Black and White Negative Film?
  • 0

#2 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 19 November 2005 - 07:21 AM

Does Kodak manufacture 65mm Black and White Negative Film?

No i am pretty sure they dont . john holland .
  • 0

#3 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19769 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 19 November 2005 - 10:58 AM

I'm sure they do, but as a special order item probably. I once saw some b&w IMAX footage years ago, for example.

David Lean originally planned on shooting "Dr. Zhivago" in 65mm b&w.

Stanley Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w before changing his mind and switching to 35mm color neg.

65mm b&w stocks would have been necessary back when Douglas Trumbull was shooting his efx work and doing optical printer composites in 65mm (for hi-con hold-out mattes.)
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 19 November 2005 - 11:16 AM

65mm b&w stocks would have been necessary back when Douglas Trumbull was shooting his efx work and doing optical printer composites in 65mm (for hi-con hold-out mattes.)


Hi,

Many people were using Gev 553 for Hi Con work in the 1970's/80's

Stephen
  • 0

#5 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 19 November 2005 - 12:06 PM

Yes , i have used that stock , but not 65mm, 35 and 16 mm , just dont think Kodak , have any camera neg ,in 65mm , unless a very special order , millions of rolls of stock [ ok a slight overkill] . But i am sure thats the only way . john holland , london.
  • 0

#6 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 19 November 2005 - 01:58 PM

I'm sure they do, but as a special order item probably. I once saw some b&w IMAX footage years ago, for example.

David Lean originally planned on shooting "Dr. Zhivago" in 65mm b&w.

Stanley Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w before changing his mind and switching to 35mm color neg.

65mm b&w stocks would have been necessary back when Douglas Trumbull was shooting his efx work and doing optical printer composites in 65mm (for hi-con hold-out mattes.)


---All of the dupe work in '2001' used 65mm YCM positives. Some of the work being done in bipack cameras, rather than optical printing.
See the American Cinematographer '2001' issue.

Ages ago when I was at SFState, one of the film school instuctors had studied at the soviet film school under Lev Kuleshov. He had hanging in his office a 70mm B/W clip from a Soviet movie.
It was a deep focus close up with the sea in the backgroud.

---LV
  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19769 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 19 November 2005 - 08:08 PM

Whereas I think 65mm b&w would be a special run, Kodak sells 65mm versions of most of their color negative stock (it's listed in their catalog), mainly for IMAX productions -- as far as I know, it doesn't have to be a special order run, unlike Fuji 65mm color negative (which was used for the 3D IMAX film "Wings of Courage".)
  • 0

#8 Christian Appelt

Christian Appelt
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 470 posts

Posted 19 November 2005 - 08:30 PM

Eastman black&white stocks should be available in 65mm by FTO (finish-to-order)/special order. Couldn't find the minimum amount on www.kodak.com, but I remember it was about 12.000 meters of 35mm, so it should be roughly half in 65mm format. John P. will know more on this when you need it...

Recently I watched the Russian WW2 epic (7.5 hrs) LIBERATION which has many scenes shot in 65mm b&w, which was quite interesting to watch. They used b&w for scenes where the dialogue was based on historic protocols (like Stalin or Hitler planning strategic moves), and color for the rest of the film. Fascinating movie, with much better acting and direction than the recent German movie...

Edited by Christian Appelt, 19 November 2005 - 08:39 PM.

  • 0

#9 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 November 2005 - 07:55 AM

Stanley Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w before changing his mind and switching to 35mm color neg.


Very interesting. I didn't know about that.

Kubrick also considered shooting 'Eyes Wide Shut' in 65mm at first. A steadicam operator I've worked with got asked if he wanted to do the shoot, but he turned the job down, because he didn't want to do 50 takes with a 765 on his rig...

In both cases Kubrick went in a different direction, for a much grittier, grainier look.
  • 0

#10 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:19 AM

5231 and 5222 are not catalog listed in 65mm. Not sure many labs offer 65mm B&W D-96 processing either. If you have a project in mind, talk to your Kodak representative to explore whether a Special Order could be considered. Of course, an entire wide roll would need to be slit to 65mm, so the minimum quantity is likely to be high.
  • 0

#11 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:42 AM

Arri Lab in Munich process 65mm film.

I do want to make a film in 65mm one day, but of course it depends on the right project. No point shooting 65mm if it's all interiors. The Zeiss lenses that Arri has for their 765 have very impressive close-focus, even better than anamorphic lenses. The only drawback is the weight and size of the 765 itself, not sure if steadicam is possible.
  • 0

#12 Mitch Gross

Mitch Gross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2873 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:50 AM

If Larry MaConkey was able to fly an Imax camera then there has to be a 65mm camera that is Steadicam compatible! Brad, didn't you once fly the Russian 65mm Starcam from Slow-Motion?
  • 0

#13 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 November 2005 - 11:10 AM

What kind of shots did he do?

The 765 is quite heavy (it's sync camera after all) and getting up stairs would be a must.
  • 0

#14 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 21 November 2005 - 04:22 PM

What kind of shots did he do?

The 765 is quite heavy (it's sync camera after all) and getting up stairs would be a must.


The 765 is not the only 65mm camera.

The Panavision 65mm handhed, which iis about the size of a 35BL, was used on a steadicam extesively in 'Brainstorm'. Often with a 19mm Kowa 66 fisheye.

Here are some pictures of the russian 70mm hand held camera, though with stereo lenses:

http://stereokino.ru/camen3.htm

Bonderchuk's 'War and Peace' has some amazing handheld work using this basic model.

---LV


I'm sure they do, but as a special order item probably. I once saw some b&w IMAX footage years ago, for example.

David Lean originally planned on shooting "Dr. Zhivago" in 65mm b&w.

Stanley Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w before changing his mind and switching to 35mm color neg.

65mm b&w stocks would have been necessary back when Douglas Trumbull was shooting his efx work and doing optical printer composites in 65mm (for hi-con hold-out mattes.)


---Don't know how I forgot it.
Much of 'Tron' was shot on 65mm Double-X.
The live action 'animation' was shhot on 65mm, printed on to kodalith animation cels, which were rephotographed masked and through color filters onto Vistavision.

---LV
  • 0

#15 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 November 2005 - 06:15 PM

But the 765 is the best 65mm camera.

The 65mm Panavision camera you mention is MOS as far as I'm aware.
  • 0

#16 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19769 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 21 November 2005 - 06:22 PM

Panavision created a new 65mm Panaflex around the same time as the 765.
  • 0

#17 Mitch Gross

Mitch Gross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2873 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:54 PM

"Far & Away" was primarily shot using the newer Panavision 65mm camera that David mentioned. In the Land-Rush sequence where many cameras were needed (I think a dozen or so) they emptied the shelves of 65mm gear, employing old Panavision gear, 765s and some Mitchells pulled from the mothballs. There still weren't enough so for a couple of cameras buried in the ground anamorphic 35 setups were used.

I believe Storaro used Panavision for the 65mm sequences in "Little Budda."

I'm sure the 765 is an excellent camera, but it was designed as a sync-sound general prodution camera yet most of them only found used shooting highspeed f/x plates. I've been told they have to be serviced fairly regularly because they are used so much in a way other than what they were designed for. Or at least they were when people still shot a lot of f/x plates in 65mm.
  • 0

#18 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 22 November 2005 - 04:24 AM

The 65mm sequences of 'Little Budda' were shot on the 765. There was an article in AC about it.
  • 0

#19 Ignacio Aguilar

Ignacio Aguilar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 398 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Madrid, Spain

Posted 22 November 2005 - 10:40 AM

Here are some pictures of the russian 70mm hand held camera, though with stereo lenses:

http://stereokino.ru/camen3.htm

Bonderchuk's 'War and Peace' has some amazing handheld work using this basic model.


Here are some more shots of that camera while shooting War and Peace:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The camera and handheld work is gorgeous. At first, I couldn't believe that a 70mm stock camera could do that 16mm-like shots. The film itself is really beautiful and features large-scale battles with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of extras. A real must to see, in my opinion.
  • 0

#20 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 22 November 2005 - 11:12 AM

I agree , must be seen in 70 mm , shot on a stock called Sovcolor , which in fact was Agfa-Gaevert , only about 25 asa , but might be wrong there about speed i mean . john holland london.
  • 0


Aerial Filmworks

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

CineTape

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

CineLab

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

Glidecam

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Glidecam

Visual Products

Opal

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Aerial Filmworks

CineTape