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#1 Edwood

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 04:41 AM

The Following Two pics are from 2 japnese films:
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masaki kobayashi---<samurai rebellion>(1967)
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arika kurosawa---<seven samurai>(1961)

my question is:
do they use the same kind films?and are they all full-color films?
and the color of the mud in the first pic is very special,could you tell me which kind of SFX or rendering they used in this film?
thx
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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 06:07 AM

I'm sorry I cannot answer your question, because I suffer from monochromatic color-blindness, which means that I cannot see any colors, only shades of gray.
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#3 Edwood

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 08:36 AM

I'm sorry I cannot answer your question, because I suffer from monochromatic color-blindness, which means that I cannot see any colors, only shades of gray.

i mean the black is so "depth" than the usual b&w film can "reflect";
all i wonna to make sure is whether these two films use one kind of film?and the black FX in the first one is affected by the camera or by the digital FX?
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#4 Max Jacoby

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 09:20 AM

Since these films are from the sixties, you can bet that they didn't use any digital grading to achieve this look, it was all done in camera. On the picture in question the mud is either so dark to begin with or they wet it down.

The fact that these two pictures look so different contras-wise is probably a combination of how the film was shot (the look achieved in camera), how good the element was that they transfered the film from and what they did in the telecine. With these old films, the colorists who do the transfer usually try to respect the look and do not go overboard with grading.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 09:55 AM

They were both shot on b&w negative.

You can't tell anything about how the blacks or contrast really are in the original because these are video transfers, and you don't know what type of film element was used in the transfer either, nor its quality.

Also, "Seven Samurai" was 1954, not 1961.
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#6 Edwood

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 09:36 PM

thx very much
and could you tell me which kind of film-stocks are uesd in these two films?
and the mud's "darkness" is sort of "fliters" effection?
if you can tell me the technical details about these two films camera and stock are the best result
thx again
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 11:17 PM

I doubt filters were used to make the mud darker -- it probably just WAS really dark mud. Red filters can make a blue sky darker in b&w, and blue filters can make something red darker, but I doubt it was red mud turned dark by blue filters. The simplest explanation is that the mud was dark, either naturally or dark mud was added by the art department. Not everything in a frame is a photographic trick...

"Seven Samurai" was shot in 35mm 1.37 Academy while "Samurai Rebellion" was shot in 35mm 2.35 anamorphic using Tohoscope lenses (Kurosawa's first scope movie was "Hidden Fortress" by the way.)

Odds are high that standard 35mm Kodak b&w negative film was used, meaning either Plus-X, Double-X, or a combination of both, although in this case, both shots being day exterior scenes, Plus-X was the most likely choice. However, there were competitors to Kodak b&w stock back then -- Fuji, Ilford, Ansco, Dupont, etc. -- so it's possible that one of those were used instead.

It's relatively easy to adjust b&w development to alter contrast, so two films using the same stock may still have different looks.
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#8 Edwood

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 05:26 AM

I doubt filters were used to make the mud darker -- it probably just WAS really dark mud. Red filters can make a blue sky darker in b&w, and blue filters can make something red darker, but I doubt it was red mud turned dark by blue filters. The simplest explanation is that the mud was dark, either naturally or dark mud was added by the art department. Not everything in a frame is a photographic trick...

"Seven Samurai" was shot in 35mm 1.37 Academy while "Samurai Rebellion" was shot in 35mm 2.35 anamorphic using Tohoscope lenses (Kurosawa's first scope movie was "Hidden Fortress" by the way.)

Odds are high that standard 35mm Kodak b&w negative film was used, meaning either Plus-X, Double-X, or a combination of both, although in this case, both shots being day exterior scenes, Plus-X was the most likely choice. However, there were competitors to Kodak b&w stock back then -- Fuji, Ilford, Ansco, Dupont, etc. -- so it's possible that one of those were used instead.

It's relatively easy to adjust b&w development to alter contrast, so two films using the same stock may still have different looks.

that's very kind for both of you
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