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Isn't film always 24 FPS??


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#1 Marcus Frakes

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 05:09 AM

I just moved from the States to Europe and was puzzled that the film cameras were set to 25fps. I heard of this before, but it never made total sense to me. On one hand I understand there is a difference in voltage and the 2 film speeds compensate to eliminate any strobic effects from HMI lighting, etc. (even though the 24/25fps feature existed before HMI??).

I just thought that 24fps was what we saw at the movie theaters regardless of where it was shown (Europe or US). What do film makkers shoot in if they are going to release in both regions?

Add to this, a "film made into the video" or cable and it gets more confusing.

Any clarity to this?

Thanks
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 05:54 AM

I just moved from the States to Europe and was puzzled that the film cameras were set to 25fps. I heard of this before, but it never made total sense to me. On one hand I understand there is a difference in voltage and the 2 film speeds compensate to eliminate any strobic effects from HMI lighting, etc. (even though the 24/25fps feature existed before HMI??).

I just thought that 24fps was what we saw at the movie theaters regardless of where it was shown (Europe or US). What do film makkers shoot in if they are going to release in both regions?

Add to this, a "film made into the video" or cable and it gets more confusing.

Any clarity to this?

Thanks


Hi,

Films are usually projected in the cinema at 24 fps
Films are usually transfered to video at 25 fps in Europe.
Films in Europe are often shot at 25 fps, so that there are no flicker problems. If the film is intended for a Cinema then may be shot at 24 or 25.
The 4% change in speed is not that obvious, sometimes the sound is pitch adjusted.

Stephen
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#3 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 06:07 AM

I just moved from the States to Europe and was puzzled that the film cameras were set to 25fps. I heard of this before, but it never made total sense to me. On one hand I understand there is a difference in voltage and the 2 film speeds compensate to eliminate any strobic effects from HMI lighting, etc. (even though the 24/25fps feature existed before HMI??).

I just thought that 24fps was what we saw at the movie theaters regardless of where it was shown (Europe or US). What do film makkers shoot in if they are going to release in both regions?

Add to this, a "film made into the video" or cable and it gets more confusing.

Any clarity to this?

Thanks


In Europe the film cameras are set at 25fps for television and video work. It's because PAL uses 25fps and it makes sense to shoot film for TV at the same frame rate. However, films for cinema release are shot at 24fps.

On European TV shoot 25fps and do a standards conversion to NTSC. Cinema is always 24fps (they show these films at 25fps on European TV).

You can set the film camera shutter angle to remove HMI flicker at 24fps/50Hz. In practise 25fps is extremely handy because it does prevent flickering from fluorescent lights and if you're filming a television.

Short films are often shot at 25fps because post production in Europe is more geared for 25fps because of the TV industry.

Sometimes in the USA they shoot film at 30fps for TV, although it's mostly at 24fps.
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#4 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 07:17 AM

Of course 25 fps is for TV but one has to also consider that some theaters project at 25 fps too.. That allows them to projet more adverts before the feature !
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#5 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 08:59 AM

Of course 25 fps is for TV but one has to also consider that some theaters project at 25 fps too.. That allows them to projet more adverts before the feature !


True, although the bum factor can kick in on a feature film shot at 25fps playing in a 24fps cinema.
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#6 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 05:09 PM

Sure, but I think many adverts were shot at 25 fps (so they have a master for both TV and theaters) and take the risk of being projected at 24...
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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 07:39 PM

Sure, but I think many adverts were shot at 25 fps (so they have a master for both TV and theaters) and take the risk of being projected at 24...


Television is the main outlet for the most of these adverts and they'll be shot for that medium at 25 fps, the theatres are just an additional outlet. If required they can do a pitch change on the sound for the cinema versions, although I suspect they may not bother - the success of this process depending on the type of music.
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#8 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 07:25 AM

When I worked as a projectionist, our projectors could be set to 24 25 and 30fps. But we ran everything in 24fps, even all the european movies shot at 25fps. As Stephen said, a 4% difference isn't very noticable. Anyway, that's how every movie from America is shown here on TV or on DVD anyway - 4% faster.
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#9 Thomas Worth

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 09:03 AM

Also, movies shot at 25fps can be transferred to NTSC DVD at 1:1 with the 4% slowdown mentioned earlier (progressive scan), OR with a non-standard pulldown (not sure of the cadence). The ones transferred with pulldown play at their original rate, so the audio does not need to be modified. But, they are not truly progressive scan. Chopper and Come and See I were transferred this way, I believe. The ones that are transferred at 1:1 are done the correct way, in my opinion, and look better.
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#10 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 11:51 AM

Except in mixing studios and labs where multi-speed projectors are available, most commercial multiplex cinemas in Europe run at 25fps, not 24 fps. I even called Kinoton, one of the leading projector manufacturers to confirm this. Because mains is 50Hz in Europe, it is easier to make the projectors run at 25 fps.

I have also timed the projection time of many feature films we did, since I know the exact number of frames in the film, timing is easy with my mobile phone, then divide number of frames by the minutes it took to show the film and presto: fps of the projector.

I have not yet found one single theatre that really runs at 24 but there must be some.

Conclusion so far: the average multiplex theatre in Europe runs at 25.

This said, it is better to have your 24fps film projected at 25 than your 25fps film projected at 24.
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