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4:3 to 16:9


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#1 dbledwn11

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:32 PM

what would be the best way to prefigure some 16:9 guidelines on a 16mm camera (as you well know 4:3).
i was thinking of framing up the viewfinder to a 4:3 tv (which will be my widescreen set to 4:3 by the way)then play a 16:9 film and mark off the lines on the viewfinder according the image on the screen.

does that sound correct? is there a better way/easier way?

how exactly does one create temporary guidelines in the viewfinder?
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#2 David Sweetman

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 06:01 PM

I would be wary of marking up the ground glass. I just eyeball it. You can always move the image up or down in post if the framing isn't perfect once you letterbox it. This is why I won't letterbox in telecine, but instead transfer full app so I have the whole image to work with.
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#3 no_soft_shots

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 06:10 PM

Go to local camera rental house and use their frame chart to mark up your viewfinder. It would be much more accurate than marking it off a movie.

Depending on the type of camera you are using you should be able to get a 16:9 ground glass. Otherwise your markings should go onto the groundglass not the viewfinder. Be very careful handleing your groundglass!

I have an Arri ST and I use clear sticky tape to mark the 16:9 lines.

I would also recomend shooting a frame chart at the begining of one of your rolls of film so the telecine can match your frame. The telecine should have the 16:9 frame stored as a preset mask.

good luck
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:47 PM

I do pretty much what no_soft_shots does. I tape up a 16:9 framing chart to the wall, study the image in my Arri SR viewfinder, then carefully remove the fibre optics screen and using Scotch Magic Tape (the cloudy clear stuff) I tape off the top and bottom on the screen. Put it back in and check it against the chart. I do this until I have it right, then shoot the 16:9 chart at the head of my first roll. The telecinist lines up off of that.

The nice thing about the Magic Tape is that it makes it harder to see the upper and lower bands on the screen, so you naturally see the 16:9 frame, but the upper and lower bands are not completely obscured, you can still see them, so you can protect the area from mic booms, flags, or lights. Then if you ever decide you need to take a 4:3 transfer from the footage, you can do that.

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#5 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 10:03 PM

What side of the ground glass do you put tape on ?

Doens't live to traces afterwards ?
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#6 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 10:17 PM

What side of the ground glass do you put tape on ?

Doens't live to traces afterwards ?



On the side where the current marks exist. Usually the side closest to the eyepiece.

Colored and also coloured transparent tape also works well and is stylish in the video assist monitor!
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#7 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 11:33 PM

Thanks as to the second question, sorry I realize I wrote it badly... Doesn't the tape leave traces on the ground glass ?
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 01:24 AM

Thanks as to the second question, sorry I realize I wrote it badly... Doesn't the tape leave traces on the ground glass ?


I take the tape off after each project, which is kind of a hassle. But I do it for the very reason you mention, I am afraid if I leave it on, it will somehow permanently mark the fibre optics screen. The SR has a fibre optics screen, not a ground glass. I have never tried putting tape on a ground glass focusing screen.

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#9 dbledwn11

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 01:09 PM

this might sound a bit lo-tech but could i make up my own frame chart?

what dimensions might you suggest to make the framing up easier?

this will be on a test roll so if its wildly out its no big loss.

also, the camera i'll be using has ground glass so still use the side with marks already on i suppose. scotch tape sounds fine to me.

Edited by dbledwn11, 28 November 2005 - 01:10 PM.

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#10 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 01:31 PM

If the viewfinder screen already has "factory" markings, you can probably calculate the precise dimensions for other image areas to mark on the temporary tape.

I believe 3M sells a special version of "Magic Tape" that is low stick, and has no adhesive residue, so it can be removed with minimal risk:

http://www.epinions....nt_123033521796

http://products3.3m....ler/output_html
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 01:48 PM

this might sound a bit lo-tech but could i make up my own frame chart?

what dimensions might you suggest to make the framing up easier?

this will be on a test roll so if its wildly out its no big loss.

also, the camera i'll be using has ground glass so still use the side with marks already on i suppose. scotch tape sounds fine to me.


Just take a sheet of paper, turn it sideways, and lay out a grid, using 1/2 inch blocks. Then choose a section in the center of the paper that is sixteen blocks long by nine blocks high. Put a heavy thick line around the 16:9 portion of the grid. Focus and frame off of that. Pretty low tech, but it will work fine.

-Tim
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#12 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 02:18 PM

Just take a sheet of paper, turn it sideways, and lay out a grid, using 1/2 inch blocks. Then choose a section in the center of the paper that is sixteen blocks long by nine blocks high. Put a heavy thick line around the 16:9 portion of the grid. Focus and frame off of that. Pretty low tech, but it will work fine.

-Tim


Someone at Cornell University has put a 16:9 test chart on-line as an Adobe .pdf file:

http://www.graphics..../res-chart.html
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#13 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 04:14 PM

In a pinch, I have used the TV safe markings as a guide for 16:9 top and bottom. It's not exact, but it gives you an idea where to aim. Otherwise, without reliable markings, I'd be tempted just to shoot 4:3, leave a little extra headroom, and worry about the letterbox in post.
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#14 lluis

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 05:44 PM

I take the tape off after each project, which is kind of a hassle. But I do it for the very reason you mention, I am afraid if I leave it on, it will somehow permanently mark the fibre optics screen. The SR has a fibre optics screen, not a ground glass. I have never tried putting tape on a ground glass focusing screen.


Some times I have matched an Aaton fiber optic screen with tape and later perfectly cleaned with cotton with dissolvent (and later lens cleaner), without leave marks.
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Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

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Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Technodolly