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Wondering some stuff on super8.


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#1 David Silverstein

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 12:36 AM

Hi im looking to buy a CANON 514XL-S. Any comments on that camera?

Also I noticed that super 8 film stock has a very low asa? Do these productions require a massive amount of light? Also how much time will one roll of film get me? Im guessing 11 min like 400ft of 16mm? And processing and getting telecine how much does that usally run for lets say like 45min of footage.

Thanks
David S.

Edit: I saw somewhere Walmart can process these is that true? and if so where can I get a telecine?

Edited by David Silverstein, 28 November 2005 - 12:37 AM.

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#2 Nate Downes

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:43 AM

You can get Super8 film in the following speeds from kodak:

Color Reversal:

64T

B&W reversal:

100
125

Color Negative:
200T
500T

Are you seriously saying that 500 speed film isn't fast enough?

As for the walmart bit, they processed the old K40 film, which is no longer in production. For telecine, check out filmshooting.com for a massive index of processing and telecine facilities.
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:01 AM

Hi,

The frank answer is "yes". To get an image on super-8 that is more than a field of flickering grain, you're best advised to use the slowest possible filmstock, which will require you to shoot either outdoors at noon in midsummer, or risk microwaving the cast with an enormous amount of power-hungry and expensive to rent artificial light.

Be aware that super-8 is only very fractionally cheaper than 16mm, and can actually be cheaper given the difficulty of finding telecine.

Phil
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#4 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:30 AM

Right now, there are only two labs in the world that process Super-8 KODACHROME film. Dwaynes in Parsons, Kansas, and the Kodak lab in Lausanne Switzerland. If you take KODACHROME film to WalMart or other retailers, it will be sent to one of these two labs:

Dwayne's Photo Service
415 S. 32nd Street
Parsons, KS 67357
US
(620) 421-3940
Toll Free: 1-800-522-3940
Fax: (620) 421-3174

Kodak SA
Laboratoire KODACHROME
Case Postale
Ch-1001 Lausanne
Switzerland,
CH
(41) (21) 631-0111
Fax: (41) (21) 631-0150

The KODAK EKTACHROME 64T Super-8 film uses the E-6 process, which is easier for more labs to process, and can even be done in a home processing tank.

http://www.kodak.com...=0.1.4.14&lc=en
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#5 steve hyde

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 01:56 PM

David,

Here is a useful film calculator:

http://www.kodak.com...Calculator.html

In terms of stock and processing (by my own estimates and experience working in both formats) 16mm is approximately 1/3 more expensive than Super 8. This one third savings can easily be eclipsed by postproduction expenses associated with shooting super 8.

In terms of grain and Super 8 - Super 8 is always grainier than larger formats, but visual grain can be greatly reduced by taking lighting seriously. Most Super 8 footage that you will find on the web is not shot under carefully calculated lighting conditions and therefore it looks like shmack.

Take a look at some of the screen shots I posted in the other thread. Most Super 8 stocks are represented there.

Steve

edit: by the way a good posthouse for super 8 is CinePost in Atlanta GA. www.posthouse.com

Edited by steve hyde, 28 November 2005 - 01:59 PM.

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#6 A.Oliver

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 06:48 PM

Hi im looking to buy a CANON 514XL-S. Any comments on that camera?

Also I noticed that super 8 film stock has a very low asa? Do these productions require a massive amount of light? Also how much time will one roll of film get me? Im guessing 11 min like 400ft of 16mm? And processing and getting telecine how much does that usally run for lets say like 45min of footage.

Thanks
David S.

Edit: I saw somewhere Walmart can process these is that true? and if so where can I get a telecine?


Hi, avoid the canon 514xl-s, i beleive it cannot read the new E64T stock. I think the camera can only read 40 and 160 asa stock. Both now given the chop by kodak.
Manual exposure with the 514 is via an EE locking lever, very difficult to hold in place while filming. The 514xls is a great camera but now with no more k40 you really need to look for a camera that can read film speeds from say 50asa to 400asa.
In one blow kodak has killed off the last remaining elements of cine for the masses. Not that many people shoot baby on lawn footage on cine these days. The few people i know who did, have cameras that will not expose the 64t stock. With no processing labs in the uk, and no all in one package like kodachrome, i beleive a lot of people will now give up super 8. Be very interested to see just how many 64t cartridges are sold in the next 12months compared to kodachrome in its final year.
Be amazed if kodak dont give 64t the chop within three years.
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#7 David Silverstein

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:33 PM

With that being said I think im going to have to keep with the digital revolution until I can afford a budget that fits a 16mm production.

Thanks for your help.
David S.
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#8 santo

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:34 PM

beleive a lot of people will now give up super 8. Be very interested to see just how many 64t cartridges are sold in the next 12months compared to kodachrome in its final year.
Be amazed if kodak dont give 64t the chop within three years.


Motion picture film in the 21st Century is the domain of professional filmmakers, serious amateur filmmakers, artists, and nostalgia buffs with money. It has been for a long time now. Kodak's business moves are merely reflecting the marketplace.

Kodak's motion picture division continues to post all time record sales. When it comes to film, this is where the profitable investment is for them. Super 8 is part of that. That's why all production is being moved back to the USA. It is important to the company again. This is why we have a super 8 line that expanded from four stocks -- only one of which was really worth a damn in original Plus-X -- to what are now 5 high quality stocks. Three of which are professional colour motion picture film, and two black and white reversals which are both pretty excellent to shoot with now that Tri-X was improved. And more additions are being considered.

We'll never know how much 64t is sold. But they'll be making more money off each cart than they did K40. And the consumer is getting a lot better film material to work with -- we're starting to see lots of examples and testimonials on the net that demonstrate that to be true.
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#9 santo

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:46 PM

With that being said I think im going to have to keep with the digital revolution until I can afford a budget that fits a 16mm production.

Thanks for your help.
David S.


:lol:

Hey, who can blame you with such negativity? It is tiresome to read this stuff -- even more so when you know it is without real foundation. "super 8's future is uncertain" "they killed off the number one stock" (NOT), blah, blah, blah... :lol: All these negative black cloud nostalgia buffs finally got to me and I started ridiculing them openly on another webboard a while back. Put them together with businessmen with businesses founded on their DIY transfer hobby-style shooting and/or focus on film projection, and it's a hopeless black future for super 8! :lol:

Super 8 has made a gigantic comeback and continues to grow and strengthen its position. It isn't going anywhere for the next 20 or 30 years. The images it produces are great with all kinds of character and beauty and emotion to them that make video look dead in comparison, and it can only continue to get better and better and the new technology in motion picture stocks that has already made it "what 16mm used to be". To quote the Kodak motion picture head as they oversee continued growth and expansion in the little format that could. That is reality.
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#10 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:43 PM

I say don't hesitate to shoot super 8. There are lots of options and services out there. But like another poster said, avoid the Canon 514XLS. Nice images, and good in low-light, but exposure control with the EE lock lever sucks.
Rick
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#11 A.Oliver

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 12:03 PM

kodak had a great chance to give us super 8 users a descent filmstock in the super 8 cartridge when they killed k40. Why they gave us what must be there oldest stock is beyond me. If they had to give us a 64 ektachrome, why didn't they choose the e64d. Least it should be slightly less grainy. Sorry if i have gone off topic.
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#12 Erdwolf_TVL

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 02:05 PM

Hi im looking to buy a CANON 514XL-S. Any comments on that camera?

Also I noticed that super 8 film stock has a very low asa? Do these productions require a massive amount of light? Also how much time will one roll of film get me? Im guessing 11 min like 400ft of 16mm? And processing and getting telecine how much does that usally run for lets say like 45min of footage.

Thanks
David S.

Edit: I saw somewhere Walmart can process these is that true? and if so where can I get a telecine?


On movie cameras the shutter angle (normally) equates to a relatively slow "shutter speed" in still camera terminology. 1/50th of a second is a realistic number, I think. Most still pics I take in comparable light are 1/500th of a second.

Make no mistake, though. 8mm is available in up to 500 ASA in colour negative.
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#13 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 02:16 PM

kodak had a great chance to give us super 8 users a descent filmstock in the super 8 cartridge when they killed k40. Why they gave us what must be there oldest stock is beyond me. If they had to give us a 64 ektachrome, why didn't they choose the e64d. Least it should be slightly less grainy. Sorry if i have gone off topic.


I was not directly involved in the decision, but I understand that in "Voice of the Customer" interviews with customers worldwide, most put the highest priority on having a tungsten balance film. And E64T is the finest grain tungsten balance EKTACHROME film. A tungsten balance film requires a much faster blue-sensitive layer, and so has higher graininess than an equivalent speed daylight balance film.
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#14 John Hyde

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:34 PM

I was not directly involved in the decision, but I understand that in "Voice of the Customer" interviews with customers worldwide, most put the highest priority on having a tungsten balance film. And E64T is the finest grain tungsten balance EKTACHROME film. A tungsten balance film requires a much faster blue-sensitive layer, and so has higher graininess than an equivalent speed daylight balance film.


Well, you learn something new every day. So, all tungsten films including negative have the same rule that applies to grain? Are we talking 1/2 stop in grain for equivalent ASA films?
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#15 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:47 PM

Well, you learn something new every day. So, all tungsten films including negative have the same rule that applies to grain? Are we talking 1/2 stop in grain for equivalent ASA films?


Somewhere near there. Don't forget that the daylight film requires a relatively faster red-sensitive layer than the equivalent tungsten balance film.

But for least grain, match the film to the light source. Correction filters just remove light that could have helped exposure (reduced graininess) if the film was matched to the light.
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#16 Robert Hughes

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:49 PM

"A tungsten balance film requires a much faster blue-sensitive layer, and so has higher graininess than an equivalent speed daylight balance film."

That's one of the reasons Kodak's daylight negative looks different than their tungsten negative in telecine. Try some of the 250D negative; the grain structure is suprisingly neutral in shadows compared to the tungsten stocks. I'd love to see some 7201 ASA 50D in Super 8 - that would be the ultimate Kodachrome killer.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 29 November 2005 - 10:52 PM.

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#17 John Hyde

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:16 PM

I'd love to see some 7201 ASA 50D in Super 8 - that would be the ultimate Kodachrome killer.


Agreed
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#18 Ry Kawanaka

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:22 PM

Hi im looking to buy a CANON 514XL-S. Any comments on that camera?

Also I noticed that super 8 film stock has a very low asa? Do these productions require a massive amount of light? Also how much time will one roll of film get me? Im guessing 11 min like 400ft of 16mm? And processing and getting telecine how much does that usally run for lets say like 45min of footage.

Thanks
David S.

Edit: I saw somewhere Walmart can process these is that true? and if so where can I get a telecine?



Each of Super 8 cartridge has 50 feet of film in it. Thus, by running at 18fps, it would be about 3 min 20 sec. With 24fps, it would be about 2 min 30 sec.

Ry K
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