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Kodachrome replacement


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#1 Tim Myers

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 06:44 PM

I found a Kodak Instamatic M6 at a friend's house. His parents had forgotten they even owned it so it's in my posession now, but the film it takes, Kodachrome 40 type A, has been discontinued. I read somewhere that Ektachrome 64t has replaced it. Will this Ektachrome film work in my Instamatic? Or has the Instamatic M6 been rendered useless? Such confusion.
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#2 steve hyde

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:11 PM

I found a Kodak Instamatic M6 at a friend's house. His parents had forgotten they even owned it so it's in my posession now, but the film it takes, Kodachrome 40 type A, has been discontinued. I read somewhere that Ektachrome 64t has replaced it. Will this Ektachrome film work in my Instamatic? Or has the Instamatic M6 been rendered useless? Such confusion.



Hi Tim,

I don't advise wasting your time with the Kodak M6. Film is too expensive. Even if you just want to make some soft focus home movies, you will have more fun if you just spend a couple hundred bucks on good super 8 camera. I bought a Nikon R-10 for 200.00 and a Beaulieu 4008 for $125.00. Both are reliable cameras - The Beaulieu is fully servicable yet not cheap to service.

By the way the 64T should work fine in your M6, with an 85 daylight filter you are at E.I.40

ref:
http://www.kodak.com...8mm/t7280.jhtml

Steve
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#3 Tim Myers

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:19 PM

Thanks for the info. You aren't the first person to tell me the m6 leaves something to be desired. The camera I've been salivating over is the Canon 1014, currently going on e-bay for about 150 bucks. Good idea or bad idea? I'm pretty new to super 8, so new that I've only been filming on the left over cartridges found at my friend's house. I've got one more left and it'll be time to buy more. Where do I buy super 8 cartridges? And how's the cost gonna be?
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#4 John Hyde

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:53 PM

Thanks for the info. You aren't the first person to tell me the m6 leaves something to be desired. The camera I've been salivating over is the Canon 1014, currently going on e-bay for about 150 bucks. Good idea or bad idea? I'm pretty new to super 8, so new that I've only been filming on the left over cartridges found at my friend's house. I've got one more left and it'll be time to buy more. Where do I buy super 8 cartridges? And how's the cost gonna be?


Hi Tim,

Steve is correct in steering you into a better camera. The 1014 silent is a fine camera. The Nikon R8 and R10 are also excellent. These cameras go for about the same price range. Be sure to track cameras at the end of auctions to get a good gauge on the going price for specific cameras. Take care that the camera has been tested by the seller. Do not send cash or check in advance. Use only PayPal or major credit card so that you have some recourse in case of problems.

I advise against any Beaulieu because they do not seem to be as dependable. In addition, they often require significant service (including new batteries, cleaning of the internal glass filter and more) that could cost as much as several hundred dollars depending on where you go.

You can get film and processing together at one place (along with shooting advice) for less than going to Kodak direct followed by a separate lab. I recommend Spectra Lab. They package their film with processing for good prices. They also do some great telecine if you are interested in combining it with your film and processing for more savings. Average price for 50' of film and processing is about $30.00. You may also want to inquire about a used camera. They usually have dozens of serviced cameras with warranty (but cost more than ebay).

Good luck with your film shooting!
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#5 Tim Myers

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:10 AM

I really appreciate all the help, and I apologize for the annoyingly amateur questions. Upon doing research I discovered the Canon 1014 is pretty noisy. Exactly how nosy is pretty noisy? I was hoping to record sound with my DV camera and a shotgun mic next to the 1014. This is disheartening since there is a great Canon on e-bay right now, but if sound won't be possible then my search continues.
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#6 John Hyde

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:28 AM

I really appreciate all the help, and I apologize for the annoyingly amateur questions. Upon doing research I discovered the Canon 1014 is pretty noisy. Exactly how nosy is pretty noisy? I was hoping to record sound with my DV camera and a shotgun mic next to the 1014. This is disheartening since there is a great Canon on e-bay right now, but if sound won't be possible then my search continues.


True, the Canon and Nikon cameras are a bit noisy. But, it is still not impossible to shoot sound with them. Many wrap a padded blanket around the camera to help reduce noise (self-made barney). But, you must still keep the mike as far away from the camera as possible. Try to also us a "shotgun" mike to help isolate your desired sound source.

If you don't mind spending a bit more you can look for a Nizo 6080 or 6056. These cameras are super quiet and have good quality Schneider optics. With a blanket you will not even know they are running.

Edited by John Hyde, 30 November 2005 - 12:30 AM.

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#7 steve hyde

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 02:46 PM

Hi Tim,

If you are concerned with noise maybe you should go for the Nizo's that John recommends. I have a Nizo S80 and it is not very quiet. A sound barney seems to be the answer. (I have never used one)

You should know that Kodak offers a 20% discount to student's of filmmaking. Call Kodak to learn more.
30.00 for stock and processing is pretty average - some places may charge more.

I buy my negative film direct from Kodak at -20% and pay 13.00 for processing at Forde Labs in Seattle.
www.fordelabs.com

After taxes I'm in it for around 26.00 USD for stock and processing.

Steve
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#8 John Hyde

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:57 PM

The Nizo 6080 and 6056 are newer and built differently than the S80. They are designed to be much more quiet. Many claim these to be the quietest super 8 cameras ever built.

A good consideration from Steve! If you have film student credentials you will get a break on the price of film from Kodak. Keep the cost of shipping in mind when dealing with small quantities from separate sources. Both Forde and Spectra offer quality neg processing for 13.00 per roll. Though Spectra will come out a bit cheaper if you include telecine prep. In any case, both are good sources to use.

Hopefully you have what you need to get started. Good luck.
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#9 Matt Wells

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 02:44 AM

I used to own a Nizo 6080 and also a 2056 - Very quiet cameras indeed, easy for sound shoot.

I think that the 2056 is really good value, they often only make about £30 on EBay. Ok you dont have the 80mm lens like on the 6080, but 56 is pretty handy and it is still a high quality Schneider lens.

Matt
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#10 Tim Myers

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 07:47 PM

Alrighty I think I'm ready to buy a camera. I've decided to go for the Canon 1014 (is the 1014 xls much better?) but I will now need a projector. Where can I get one and what kind do I need? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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#11 Bob Last

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 09:09 PM

The 1014 is an excellent starter camera. 1014xls, of course, is a better choice but be ready to pay about 3x the 1014. Canons are known to be very reliable. But if they break down, most end up buying another one.

Although some folks don't like the Beaulieus, I do. Good thing about them is you can see the screws! There is no adhesive here and there to remove. Some owners open them out of curiosity or want to do their own maintenance. That's the reason you see a lot of them in eBay either missing some parts or not working correctly so they are getting bad reputation. Good thing is, there are abundant spare parts available. Just look ar Witnners site and there are boxes and boxes of parts. If properly maintained, they will last long and perform better than most cameras because you can choose your lens.

With regard to projector, for a start, the Sankyo 2000H are best. They have variable spped control, stable image, solid construction, and excellent lens. If you want to move higher, the Elmo's are the next choice - ST-180 up to GS-1200. If you want the best and want to see details that you cannot see on a low or mid-range projector, go with a GS-1200 or the Beaulieu 708EL. But them you have to pay 5x the regular projector.
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#12 A.Oliver

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 01:27 PM

Alrighty I think I'm ready to buy a camera. I've decided to go for the Canon 1014 (is the 1014 xls much better?) but I will now need a projector. Where can I get one and what kind do I need? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, go for a canon 814xls or 1014xls, superb cameras, only let down by soft images at f2-1.4. Avoid nizo 4056,4080,6080 etc unless they have a warranty, ultra quiet cameras let down by a stupid drive belt within the camera that stretches over time resulting in no claw movement. Beaulieu 5008,6008,7008 run just as quiet as the canon 814/1014xls.
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#13 Joe Gioielli

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 09:28 PM

Tim, you've gotten good advice, I just thought I'd add my thoughts. You might consider just using the camera that you have for the moment. Just to make sure this is something you want to invest money in.

You can get the 64t processed at Wal-mart for around 5 bucks.

By all means get a projector. Before you buy, ask around. Many people have on in the garage or basement.

Good luck
:D

Joe
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#14 Stephen Phipps

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:03 AM

Everyone is 100% correct about buying the most versatile and highest quality camera you can afford, but don't throw that M6 into the trash just yet...

Kodak's Instamatic "M" series camera line actually shoots quite nicely. Kodak used excellent quality optics in all of these cameras. I've shot several K-40 rolls with my M4 and I can't believe the print quality for such a small simple camera. All of the "M" series from the M6 through the end of the line have possible gear deterioration problems, but many people swear by the older M2 and M4 models for good performance at very minimal cost. I've never seen any Instamatic "M" sell for over $10.

So if that M6 still fires up, go ahead and do some shooting especially if you've got some K-40 lying around. Last I heard a week ago Dwayne's still had some K-40 in stock for $13.50 a roll.

I found a Kodak Instamatic M6 at a friend's house. His parents had forgotten they even owned it so it's in my posession now, but the film it takes, Kodachrome 40 type A, has been discontinued.


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#15 santo

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:56 PM

It isn't that there's exceptional optics involved, but rather that it's a prime lens you're shooting with. People are so used to making super 8 films with big soft mega-zoom cameras, that their eyes pop out of their heads when they shoot some super 8 with a prime lens. In the 1970's when most super 8 cameras were made, any average quality consumer prime lens could beat most any top "prosumer" zoom lens. That was proven about a million times in old photo magazines. Provided the camera works and the lens is in perfect shape, you should be able to get images sharper than any Canon super 8 zoom, or no less than on par with their very best 1014xls/814xls, minimum, with your little Kodak box camera.
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#16 A.Oliver

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:06 PM

Santo, you really love canon glass dont you!!!!!!!!!!. Sometime back i messed with a kodak ektasound plastic brick camera ( think is was an ektasound 130) bottom of the barrel super 8 camera. Fixed lens, 18fps only. However that fixed focus lens when used wide open was incredibly sharp, as long as your subject was around 6ft from the lens you got amazing images, easily outperforming all my canons and bauers of the time. Proves the theory, prime beats mass produced zooms from the 70's.

Alrighty I think I'm ready to buy a camera. I've decided to go for the Canon 1014 (is the 1014 xls much better?) but I will now need a projector. Where can I get one and what kind do I need? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tim, look out for the following projectors, make sure they have good belts. Most underated of all the projectors are Noris, they go quite cheaply, look for noris 342,,322,110,410. Also agfa LS1 or LS2 ( made by bauer ). Eumigs tend to hold there prices, look out for a eumig 810hqs dual guage, built like a tank, light output good (100watt) but not as bright as the noris range using the same 100watt lamp. I would recommend Noris and Bauer, bauers tend to fetch high prices.
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#17 santo

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:48 PM

Hahahaha -- I think there is no question that Canon have made some top notch lenses over the years. But pretty much only in their professional SLR line-up, and they cost a fortune. Also a few exceptional zoom lenses for professional film and video use recently. Even the lens for the xl-1/2 prosumer miniDV camera was crap and needed to be replaced with something good with a mount adapter so we could get all those miniDV features. They are not immune to the economic realities of top quality lens manufacturing, and their Leica and Zeiss challenging lenses have cost just as much over the years. The misconception that so many "enthusiasts" have is that they confuse the Canon professional line of lenses with their old camera's consumer grade lenses. There has been a distinct difference between the two at the company, and the professional line never made it to super 8 as Canon approached it as a format for the American consumer market only. Like this Canon 1014 xls prosumer from the manual. Too bad his sound Canon is loud enough to be overheard in his intense voice over unless he's encased in a block of plexiglass.

Posted Image
Canon 1014 xls prosumer target buyer 1979
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#18 Sam Wells

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 12:18 PM

S8 advocate Lenny Lipton gave the Kodak M-22 high marks back in 1972 - manual setting of stops, "rock steady.." "superb 14mm Ektanar"

The drawbacks would be - only one fl obviously and 18 fps only apparently.

Plenty of zooms perform pretty nicely stopped down. I know the assets and limitations believe me, but..

Isn't S8 about getting work done without breaking the bank anyway ?

Get the best gear you can but make interesting images, there's a limited audience for test charts....

-Sam
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#19 Jason Maeda

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 04:19 PM

Hey guys, it's great how the super-8 folks have really shown up to cinematography.com.

I own a couple canon 1014xls's, and even own a hand-made barney for them, but still too loud (and too hard to operate with the barney anyway). I'm interested in getting a nizo just for really quiet rooms, but was wondering if the other models (801's, s800's etc.) compare in terms of loudness. I really hope to find the quietest possible camera available.

thanks,
JK
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#20 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 08:08 PM

My Kodak M-22 served me well for many years. Sometimes, simple design is best design if you don't need the "bells and whistles".
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