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Vision 500 Film and Super 8 cameras


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#1 Elena Sorre

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 01:29 PM

I'm going to try out some Vision 500 film in my old GAF S805 super 8 sound camera but the film says to use with "high speed" cameras.
Are there "high speed" super 8 cameras?
I've only used Ektachrome and Kodachrome before.
Any advice or help?

Elena
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#2 steve hyde

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:00 PM

I'm going to try out some Vision 500 film in my old GAF S805 super 8 sound camera but the film says to use with "high speed" cameras.
Are there "high speed" super 8 cameras?
I've only used Ektachrome and Kodachrome before.
Any advice or help?

Elena



Hi Elena,

I'm not familiar with your GAF S805. Does it have manual aperature? At 24 fps many super 8 cameras expose the film at *about* 1/90th of a second. I suggest using a hand held meter and using an ASA between EI 250 and EI 500. Then use the aperature that your meter gives you at a 90th (or what ever shutter fits the fps you are using with your GAF....

hope this helps,

Steve
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:18 AM

At 24 fps many super 8 cameras expose the film at *about* 1/90th of a second.
Steve


Are you sure about that? That would be a relatively narrow shutter angle of only 96 degrees. :huh:
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#4 santo

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 01:07 PM

The only super 8 camera that comes close to that is the Beaulieu 4008 as a "normal" setting. Some people complain it's got a slightly strobe look to the footage when the camera is moved. I'm not sure what the exact number is off-hand. All the rest are 1/60 - 1/50 range for non-xl cameras and in the 1/40 - 1/30 range for nice and blurry motion xl cameras.

I would think that the "high speed" label only refers to cameras which can read the high speed film notches. 500 being a high speed film and having a longer notch than the other film carts like K40 (a slow film speed) and Ektachrome (a medium speed film). Some super 8 cameras can't. I have no idea if the Gaf model described can. Wish I could tell you, Elena.
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#5 steve hyde

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 02:26 PM

Are you sure about that? That would be a relatively narrow shutter angle of only 96 degrees. :huh:



Thanks John - My B4008 - which is a new camera for me - shoots at 90th of a second at 24 fps. That is information from the camera user manual (not in front of me at the moment) The Beaulieu 4008 is not a variable shutter angle camera.

My estimate that *many* super 8 cameras record at *about* a 90th at 24fps is not based on empirical evidence. That is why I suggest checking the specs on the camera in question.

My advice, in this case, is mostly conceptual:

1) figure out the approximate shutter speed of the camera.
2) meter for an aperature at an ASA between 250 and 500 with a fixed shutter speed
3) if it's a daylight shoot don't forget to compensate for 85 filtration
4) with 7218 err on the side of overexposure.

Steve
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#6 Sam Wells

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 02:48 PM

That 1/90 second shutter speed really surprises me too. (Are they selling the "Private Ryan Look" as a feature ?)

Seriously are you sure this isn't like the old Bolex so called "adapted shutter speed ?" where a "1/80" shutter speed was given for ~ 1/65 actual shutter spped so as to give allowance for light loss in the camera's beam splitting prism ?

It wouldn't surprise me at all the reflex optics in a S8 (excluding Beaulieu mirror-shutter etc) would eat up 1/3 stop and I'd expect more (the very reason the XL models were introduced).

It's been too many years since I owned an S8 camera, but the Nizo Special (really an S-56) I had - probably lost ~ 1/2 stop.

-Sam
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#7 S8 Booster

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 06:05 PM

got to be a mis-interpresting in the first place; "only for cameras accepting high speed films" (either in manual or auto mode)


from 1 of my old posts on filmshooting.com

That said, I've had some great fun with the variable shutter on my Beaulieu 4008 -- you can get some incredibly edgy motion with the lens wide open and a reduced shutter 'angle' (never know how to word that with a guillotine mechanism).
.


usually referred to as half open and you may well use a degrees equivalent shutter angle/speed:

Posted Image
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s/hoot

Edited by S8 Booster, 09 December 2005 - 06:09 PM.

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#8 christoph

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 06:16 PM

the beaulies dont use a prism, but a gillotine shutter (goes up and down) so one cant really talk of shutter angle... but 100% of the light hits the film when the shutter is open (well, actually something like 99% or so, since there is a built in clear filter that is engaged if you switch off the 85).. it's the only super8 camera that has no light loss due to a prism (and the only one with true ground glass)

the 4008 series has a shutter speed of 1/86 sec at 24fps, the 5008 has 1/60 sec at 24fps, the 6008-9008 have two settings, LL at 1/60 and normal at 1/96.

hope that clears things up
++ christoph ++

Edited by christoph, 09 December 2005 - 06:17 PM.

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#9 steve hyde

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 08:34 PM

Great table!

Wow - there is far more variance than I assumed among different cameras. Thanks for clearing this up for us.

Thanks for posting it.

edit: I'm surprised the Canon 1014XLS runs at 1/39th !?!? That does not sound correct to me. No wonder some of these cameras produce such soft images....

Steve

Edited by steve hyde, 09 December 2005 - 08:40 PM.

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#10 uoliwils

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:14 PM

edit: I'm surprised the Canon 1014XLS runs at 1/39th !?!? That does not sound correct to me. No wonder some of these cameras produce such soft images....

Steve


that's when the camera is set to 220° shutter angle. When set to 150° shutter speed is 1/58 sec.
david
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#11 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:33 PM

the beaulies dont use a prism, but a gillotine shutter (goes up and down) so one cant really talk of shutter angle... but 100% of the light hits the film when the shutter is open (well, actually something like 99% or so, since there is a built in clear filter that is engaged if you switch off the 85).. it's the only super8 camera that has no light loss due to a prism (and the only one with true ground glass)

the 4008 series has a shutter speed of 1/86 sec at 24fps, the 5008 has 1/60 sec at 24fps, the 6008-9008 have two settings, LL at 1/60 and normal at 1/96.

hope that clears things up
++ christoph ++


---the guillotine is the reflex mirror not the actual shutter. The quillotine swings into place when the shutter is closed , and out before the shutter opens.
This set up will give you more light to the viewfinder.

The eclair ACL has a similar set up.

BNCRs and Panaflexes have seperate variable angle camera shutters and rotating reflex mirror shutters.

---LV
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