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16mm projectors


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#1 Tim Myers

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 04:12 PM

I'll be getting a cp016r next month, and need to get a projector for it. Any suggestions as to which one to go after? Also, the camera I'll be purchasing has been converted to super 16, does that create any problem in my projector shopping? And while on the topic of 16mm cameras, can I get a shoulder pad for the cp-16r? If so, where? Thanks buddies.
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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 05:13 PM

I'll be getting a cp016r next month, and need to get a projector for it. Any suggestions as to which one to go after? Also, the camera I'll be purchasing has been converted to super 16, does that create any problem in my projector shopping? And while on the topic of 16mm cameras, can I get a shoulder pad for the cp-16r? If so, where? Thanks buddies.


The problem with Super 16 is that there's picture where the soundtrack is on standard 16mm. Super 16 is used for either blow up to 35mm or 16:9 TV, it's not normally projected as Super 16 (although labs do have Super 16 projectors) so they're not common.

Unless you can change the 16mm format in the camera (like the Aaton) you'll have work around the Super 16 set up. That is assuming you want to project a 16mm print with a soundtrack. One way would be to have the standard 16mm frame marked on your groundglass and just use that (you'd need a camera workshop to do this for you). However, without the Aaton's features, this will be off set and your lens distortions etc won't be symmetrical. If you were shooting materal for video, you could just mark a standard 16mm frame in the centre of the Super 16 groundglass and frame it up in the telecine.

I recall there being a shoulder pad available for the CP16, but it's such a good hand held camera as is, that I don't think there were many around.
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 05:50 PM

Hi,

16mm projectors are available in a very wide range. It's probably one of the only formats which sees use at both the domestic and truly professional ends of the scale. You can get cheap plastic projectors which are really nothing more than scaled up super-8 devices, right up to enormous projectors which take the same lenses as 35mm types and have 1.2kW xenon lamps. The best 16mm projector I've ever seen has this latter configuration. It was once used to project s16 rushes, but obviously you don't see the whole image.

Phil
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#4 Sam Wells

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:09 PM

The best 16mm projector I've ever seen has this latter configuration. It was once used to project s16 rushes, but obviously you don't see the whole image.

Phil


The Kinoton 38E will project 35, 16, and S16. Not exactly for home sceening. (well depends I guess B)

Super 16 isn't an exhibition format.

-Sam
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#5 Tim Myers

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:47 PM

Holy hell, I think that Kinoton 38E might be just a little bit out of my price range. Just a little bit. Are there cheaper projectors that can do super 16? Significantly cheaper? I'm fairly close to the guy that runs the local theater, could his 35mm projector do my super 16 footage? Maybe if I throw money at him? I'm confused.
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#6 Robert Glenn

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:50 PM

Holy hell, I think that Kinoton 38E might be just a little bit out of my price range. Just a little bit. Are there cheaper projectors that can do super 16? Significantly cheaper? I'm fairly close to the guy that runs the local theater, could his 35mm projector do my super 16 footage? Maybe if I throw money at him? I'm confused.

somewhere sold an s16 projector for 200 dollars. FOrgot where it was though
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#7 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:25 PM

Are there cheaper projectors that can do super 16? Significantly cheaper? I'm fairly close to the guy that runs the local theater, could his 35mm projector do my super 16 footage? Maybe if I throw money at him? I'm confused.


Super 16 extends the frame the camera records to include the area that "normal 16mm" uses to hold the soundtrack. Their are hundreds of 16mm Projectors that were used in places like schools and such that only show the "main Part" of a super 16 frame, Worse they often will touch the film between that main part of the farme and the soundtrack paortion, which is all image on Super16.

The local theatre guy could show a blow up to 35mm, but even if he has 16mm machines (some multiplexes were built that way) they again would expect a soundtrack where the rightmost 1/4 of your super16 picture is.

One posibility would be to do a blow down to 16mm from your super 16, but that is likly to cost almost as much as a 35mm Blowup as in each case the lab would have to use an optical printer to copy each frame individually, (same size they can do a contact print.)
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#8 gregorscheer

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 09:23 PM

I got a EIKI 16 mm sound projector on ebay for $50 (+25s/h) took a little jewelers file and extended the gate until it covered the S 16 image. Did some fine sanding and polishing until no more scratches where seen on the test film and there I have it my super 16 (silent) projector that allows me to check out my work prints. Took about two hours of fiddling.
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#9 Boris Belay

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 09:33 PM

You can't run 16mm. film (S-16 or not) through a 35mm projector : wrong film-advance mechanism.
What you may not realize is that most people who shoot S-16 don't need to project it... somewhat of a paradox! S-16 is something like an intermediate media toward a 35mm. blow-up or a digitized output. For one thing, hardly anybody watches any kind of 16mm. projection anymore...

More practically, two things stand in the way of using a regular 16mm. projector for S-16 : the film-gate, which is easily widened, and the film path, which could scratch the 'sound' part of your S-16 image -- and that's more of a problem. A projector with the simplest film path would be a good start for a modification, and so would removing most of the sound-reading system (useless anyways). Then, you should modify the rollers to protect the extended frame.
So, not altogether impossible, but not something to do with any old projector either.
Good brands are Bauer (P6/P7/P8), Eiki, later B&H, the very rare Italian Fumeo...
-B

Edited by bobolex, 16 December 2005 - 09:35 PM.

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#10 Sam Wells

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 10:48 AM

You can't run 16mm. film (S-16 or not) through a 35mm projector : wrong film-advance mechanism.


In addition to the 38E there are Prevost projectors that run both 16 & 35 - and I think some (perhaps have been modified) full frame Super 16. They're like an Eclair Cameflex 16/35.

The older dual format Prevost I encountered was a cantankerous machine though. I mean ouch. (but it could project 35mm at 16 fps...)

I think there's a Sondor that projects S16 also.

Kinoton are great engineering though. I've run tape spliced (single side) 16mm workprint thru an FP 16 - stuff that wouldn't even go through some projectors and on the Kinoton it was steady as a release print !

-Sam
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