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Renting a 35 mm camera package for a 2 day shoot. Ball park figures on cost?


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#1 razerfish

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 06:44 PM

As reward for helping me out on my own shoots, I promised a friend she could use the high def camera I rent for my next shoot for 2 days so she can do her own project.

But I started thinking that it might be cheaper to actually rent her a 35mm camera package for the weekend, plus buy her a few cans of film.

I've priced out high def equipment for the span for multi week rentals, but never 35mm for weekend use.

Can someone give me a real world, ball park guess on what this rental would cost me? I assume we will arrange the rental through the DP's camera rental house of choice for the best price.

35mm camera package -- just a basic package, nothing fancy, just enough to get the job done
enough film for 10 -12 minute project -- assuming a 15-1 shooting ratio (how much film would I have to buy?)

Assuming these parameters, what do you think it would cost me to get a 35mm basic film package, plus the raw film stock?

I'm not ready to start calling rental houses because it's months off before I have to make any decisions, plus I know that the DP we choose will be able to get better rates than we will.

Thanks for the help.

Edited by razerfish, 19 December 2005 - 06:46 PM.

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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 07:40 PM

Well, the big question is: does it have to be a sync-sound camera? Are you shooting dialogue scenes?
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#3 timHealy

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 08:12 PM

I'm not ready to start calling rental houses because it's months off before I have to make any decisions, plus I know that the DP we choose will be able to get better rates than we will.



There is no harm in calling a few companies and getting estimates. Some rental companies may want to charge your DP double if he's a jerk. (ok that's just a joke)

Your inclination to get a camera for a weekend is good. They will probably charge a one day rate for a weekend. But better than that, tell them it is for a one day shoot on a Monday, You'll have to pick up the package on a Friday and then return it on a Tuesday. You can shoot for three days for the price of one.

Also you may be able to rent it for a week and get a 1.5 day rate for the week and have it for 7 days, or perhaps 10 if you tell them it'll be picked up on a Friday, the shoot will be from M to F and return the following Monday. 10 days for the price of 1.5 days.

Make some calls and see what you can find.

Best

Tim
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#4 Joe Taylor

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 08:32 PM

I was the rental manager at Otto Nemenz in Salt Lake City and I can tell you upfront that if you've never rented a package from a real rental house you might be surprised just how much insurance is. If you do have the required insurance then a basic package for a Arri BL3 III or BL4s will probably cost you around $1750 to $2000 for the two days. That is a bare bones package. Body, 3 400' mags, Zeiss Standards, sticks, high-hat, etc. Film... new 400' loads of Kodak are around $210.00. Much cheaper if you get it through Dr. Rawstock.
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#5 razerfish

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 09:29 PM

I was the rental manager at Otto Nemenz in Salt Lake City and I can tell you upfront that if you've never rented a package from a real rental house you might be surprised just how much insurance is. If you do have the required insurance then a basic package for a Arri BL3 III or BL4s will probably cost you around $1750 to $2000 for the two days. That is a bare bones package. Body, 3 400' mags, Zeiss Standards, sticks, high-hat, etc. Film... new 400' loads of Kodak are around $210.00. Much cheaper if you get it through Dr. Rawstock.


I was budgeting a max. of about $2K for this deal, price of film included. Hoping I can figure a way to make that work. Seems I might be close.

Development costs would be up to her, but she has little to no money. I'm wondering if I'll actually do her harm by getting her a 35mm package instead of HD. With HD, she can edit locally without much trouble, either on my machine or a shared friend's. Not real sure of the post production path to take with film, or the costs to get a transfer.

Will need to put some more thought into this.

Thanks for the info.
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#6 razerfish

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 10:05 PM

Well, the big question is: does it have to be a sync-sound camera? Are you shooting dialogue scenes?


Yeah, there's singing and things like that. And I know she doesn't want to do it all ADR.
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 12:25 AM

Probably the best thing is to talk to some rental houses and tell them how much money you have to work with for a weekend rental.

You might be better off considering Super-16 if you haven't yet factored in the costs of the sound recording equipment plus telecine costs, plus rental insurance.

You said it was a 10-12 min. project with a 15:1 shooting ratio -- so that's like 15,000' of 35mm stock. You're already over your 2K budget right there since that's like $6000 to $7000 worth of 35mm stock.
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#8 razerfish

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 12:54 AM

Probably the best thing is to talk to some rental houses and tell them how much money you have to work with for a weekend rental.

You might be better off considering Super-16 if you haven't yet factored in the costs of the sound recording equipment plus telecine costs, plus rental insurance.

You said it was a 10-12 min. project with a 15:1 shooting ratio -- so that's like 15,000' of 35mm stock. You're already over your 2K budget right there since that's like $6000 to $7000 worth of 35mm stock.


Okay, forget 35mm then. Back to the Sony 900
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#9 Rik Andino

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 01:54 AM

Film stock isn't cheap.
When you start shooting film you learn to be conservative.

David Mullen is right the 35mm film stock cost alone will be over your budget...

But you should consider S16...
Also telling your friend to be more conservative and shoot a 10:1 ratio instead

Which means you could do the project for about 3000' of 16mm film (which is around 1grand)
And you can spend the other grand on the camera package...if you're conservative.

If you're not going for a theatrical release S16 is pretty good
And it's quality is good enough to rival HD (some would argue it's better than HD)

But you should also take into consideration things like insurance policies
And small acessories people forget to add up.

Eitherways
Good Luck
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#10 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 05:46 PM

Rik is right :
Consider super16 and talk to the rental house. Consider a less than 15:1 ratio. Although it is often easier to get breaks on 35mm gear because there is less demand for it.
USE ANY LEGAL MEANS NECESSARY TO GET THE FILM MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#11 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:49 PM

"Although it is often easier to get breaks on 35mm gear because there is less demand for it"

I don?t know about that one, I just had a hell of a time trying to lock in a camera package in June because of the high demand for gear (and this is from Panavision Woodland Hills, not some small rental house).

All the above is true. HD is probably your best bet, but if you did go 35mm, look into 3 perf if for tape only.


Kevin Zanit
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#12 Michael Collier

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:59 PM

At that price point, for a weekend shoot I would recomend just getting HD. Yes you can shoot s16. yes you can hope she has some more money for development and editing, yes you can do this or that, but in the end a good camera will cost you around 1k. Factor in maybe 100-200 bucks for tape stock (tape is pretty expensive for HD) and maybe 200 bucks to get it transfered to mini-DV for the offline edit (make sure the timecode corresponds so the offline EDL will match up with the raw footage)

Forget the shoot ratios, you now have the abillity to shoot 15:1 or 30:1. Shoot until you get that feeling of having it (best feeling ever. seriously. ever.)

Then you can offline with Avid or Premiere or any other NLE cappable of EDLs (now you see why my company name is Random Acronym) and spend all the time in the world. when your done, spend the rest of the money on conforming the final cut.

Film is great, but if you have to take shortcuts you have to start asking yourself....does this budget level honestly warrant film being used? If its too tight then your best bet may be to go to a good HD camera.

Just an opinion from a film/digi agnostic shooter.
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#13 Mitch Gross

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 11:04 PM

Three hours of footage in a single weekend? Unrealistic unless it is just take after take or a lot of waste.
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