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sony dsr 450 24 fps - whats the best shutter


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#1 Moshe Mishali

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 08:44 AM

hello

i'm now testing for a music video that will be shot next month and the director like to get a
film look for the video, we will shoot it with a dsr 450 at 24 fps the video is a rock band in an old
rock concert like somthing from the 60ws it is all inside a big nightclub.
my question is what's the best shutter to use with 24 fps to get an old film look? i have asked many dp's and many said to live the shutter of, others suggested 1/50 shutter.
i will test both of course but i would like to hear any oppinions.

thanks
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#2 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 07:07 PM

i'm now testing for a music video that will be shot next month and the director like to get a
film look for the video, we will shoot it with a dsr 450 at 24 fps the video is a rock band in an old
rock concert like somthing from the 60ws it is all inside a big nightclub. my question is what's the best shutter to use with 24 fps to get an old film look? i have asked many dp's and many said to live the shutter of, others suggested 1/50 shutter.
i will test both of course but i would like to hear any oppinions.

EDIT: Let me try again ... too much egg nog I'm afraid ...

Hi Moshe: When the DSR-450WSL (NTSC version) camera is in 24p mode, you turn the electronic shutter _on_ and set it to 1/48-sec. to yield the same motion artifact of a 180 degree shutter angle on a film camera running at 24 fps. When the DSR-450WSL's shutter is thus set, the text label "1/48" should appear at the bottom of the viewfinder.

(Alternatively, if the cam is in 24p mode with the shutter is off, the shutter is operating at 1/24-sec. which yields a fairly smeary/blurred look.)

I'm not certain, but I don't believe the PAL version of this cam has a 24p mode.

The user manual for versions of this cam is available in the "Manuals and Docs" section of this website. Refer to page 52 in the manual for more info.

Edited by Peter DeCrescenzo, 25 December 2005 - 08:39 PM.

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#3 Moshe Mishali

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 04:47 AM

EDIT: Let me try again ... too much egg nog I'm afraid ...

Hi Moshe: When the DSR-450WSL (NTSC version) camera is in 24p mode, you turn the electronic shutter _on_ and set it to 1/48-sec. to yield the same motion artifact of a 180 degree shutter angle on a film camera running at 24 fps. When the DSR-450WSL's shutter is thus set, the text label "1/48" should appear at the bottom of the viewfinder.

(Alternatively, if the cam is in 24p mode with the shutter is off, the shutter is operating at 1/24-sec. which yields a fairly smeary/blurred look.)

I'm not certain, but I don't believe the PAL version of this cam has a 24p mode.

The user manual for versions of this cam is available in the "Manuals and Docs" section of this website. Refer to page 52 in the manual for more info.


peter - you are right about the PAL virsion it dosen't have a 24p mode but it has a 25p mode and thats what i'm going to use/
after testing i found that the best look for me is a 25p 1/50 shutter.
thanks for the much needed info.

p.s.
do you now why the PAL virision dosen't have a 24p mode?

thanks again
mosh
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#4 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 11:22 AM

... do you now why the PAL virision dosen't have a 24p mode?

Hi Moshe: I don't know why Sony doesn't include 24p in the PAL version of the DSR-450WSL, regrets. Perhaps Sony has a sense of humor, and this is their idea of a cosmic joke? :)

No, seriously, I believe it's not common for PAL camcorders to have a 24p mode. I don't know if implementing this would substantially increase the cost of a camcorder or not, but for whatever reason it's not typical.

In any event, apparently footage shot in 25p or 50i mode can be converted, for example, to a 24 fps film-out fairly readily by a variety of labs.

Best of luck with your project.

Edited by Peter DeCrescenzo, 27 December 2005 - 11:22 AM.

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#5 Dave Hall

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 12:24 PM

(Alternatively, if the cam is in 24p mode with the shutter is off, the shutter is operating at 1/24-sec. which yields a fairly smeary/blurred look.)


Peter,
I was all set to say you were wrong about the 1/24 shutter, but I can't seem to find anything in the manual about what the 24P shutter speed is by default. I thought that 1/32 was as low as you could go, but the picture seems a slight bit brighter when I switch the shutter off from 1/32... so how do you know it's 1/24 by default?

Dave Hall
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#6 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 01:01 PM

... the picture seems a slight bit brighter when I switch the shutter off from 1/32... so how do you know it's 1/24 by default?

Not sure I understand your question. One would expect the video to be brighter @ 1/24-sec. compared to 1/32-sec., unless I've misunderstood your meaning.
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#7 Dave Hall

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 02:49 PM

One would expect the video to be brighter @ 1/24-sec. compared to 1/32-sec.


You are absolutely right. My point was that I thought 1/32 was as slow as possible. The question is: where did you learn or read that it's 1/24?
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