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F950 rental in New York


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#1 Brandon Robinson

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 08:49 PM

I will be shooting in april and need to secure an F950, the job requires 4:4:4 HD shooting at 24p, the best bet is the F950 but the options are hard to locate, I found plus8 digital will rent but it appears to be 2000 a day and I need the cam for a week, which kills my budget for this experimental work. Does anyone know of another place to rent it from in New York City or if there is a place outside of NY that would ship or allow long distance transporting. Thanks for any help or if you would like to talk shop a bit I would appreciate that also.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 09:02 PM

Just because you need it for a week doesn't mean you'll be charged for five days. Many rental houses have a 3-day week rental, some will even cut that down on a longer shoot.

The Thomson Viper also does 24P/1080 4:4:4.
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#3 Mitch Gross

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:09 PM

You should give Plus8 a call. They're good guys and if you explain your project to them I'm sure they'll work out something for you.
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#4 Elhanan Matos

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:28 PM

I'll second that. Give plus 8 digital a call; ask for John Fishburn, he should be able to help you out.
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#5 Brandon Robinson

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:55 PM

ok I will give them a call, thanks for the contact

As for the Viper, based purely on reviews and data I had chosen the F950, is there a real winner, is one easier to adapt to than the other?
Do you guys have any advise on shooting log, i have heard that the filmstream mode is similar to the F950s 10bit throughput except it has a green hue, does this effect post much?
Again I haven't shot log before, is there a device that will convert to lin for the preview monitors?
:blink:
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:53 PM

The Viper does allow the option of recording a 2.35 image using all 1920 x 1080 pixels per frame, but otherwise, image quality would be similar to the F950.

The main difference between it and the Sony F950 is philosophical -- in 4:4:4 mode (going to an SRW1 recorder for example), the Sony image is 10-bit Linear versus the Viper image which is 10-bit Log with a greenish cast, which can timed to normal (some people use a magenta filter in order to improve the noise in the red & blue channels, rather than remove it through color-correction, although its debatable whether that is really necessary.)

Obviously the signal coming off of the CCD's is linear, so the Viper is essentially adding a log curve of their own design to a linear signal. You may or may not feel that this helps add more of a "film look" to the image versus just playing with the gammas on the F950.

You can see a simple comparison here:
http://www.cinematog.../small-chip.htm

Note that the Viper seems to have better overexposure information, although I don't know if playing with the knee of the F950 would make a match in that regards.

Edited by David Mullen, 28 December 2005 - 05:55 PM.

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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:18 PM

Hi,

> Obviously the signal coming off of the CCD's is linear

This is not, to be as pedantic as possible, strictly so. The reaction of a CCD to light is not linear; the CCD's output amp is not linear; the reaction of the display device to the numbers thus generated is not linear.

It's true that video is generally handled in a linear colourspace, but the data itself is not linear to anything in particular.

Whether this actually makes any difference or not is a matter for debate, my position being that if it can be made to look correct in the grade who cares.

Phil
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:19 PM

Hi,

> Obviously the signal coming off of the CCD's is linear

This is not, to be as pedantic as possible, strictly so. The reaction of a CCD to light is not linear; the CCD's output amp is not linear; the reaction of the display device to the numbers thus generated is not linear.


Well... more linear than film! Without applying gamma adjustments, generally the response to light is linear -- i.e. an equal amount of voltage, current, whatever, for an equal increase in exposure. Film's response is similarly straight in the midtones but flatter in the shadows and highlights.
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#9 Ben Schwartz

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 06:55 PM

I will be shooting in april and need to secure an F950, the job requires 4:4:4 HD shooting at 24p, the best bet is the F950 but the options are hard to locate, I found plus8 digital will rent but it appears to be 2000 a day and I need the cam for a week, which kills my budget for this experimental work. Does anyone know of another place to rent it from in New York City or if there is a place outside of NY that would ship or allow long distance transporting. Thanks for any help or if you would like to talk shop a bit I would appreciate that also.


In addition to Plus8, AbelCine also has an F950 package for rent.
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#10 Brandon Robinson

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 10:54 PM

cool thanks, I'll call them too, now my thing is do i want to atempt the viper, with its 10 bit log, thats alot of information, does anybody have comments on how the filmstream footage effects post, looks like an extra step but it may be worth it
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#11 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:57 AM

cool thanks, I'll call them too, now my thing is do i want to atempt the viper, with its 10 bit log, thats alot of information, does anybody have comments on how the filmstream footage effects post, looks like an extra step but it may be worth it


Why would there be an extra step? Unless you want color-timed SD downconversions for editing, in which case you'd have to treat it like film dailies and run it through a DaVinci as it was being transferred to SD tape, and color-correct it based on a gray scale or whatever. You'd have to do the same with the F950 except that if the image was already corrected in-camera, then it's a straight downconversion.

Now, of course, you could shoot with the Viper in "HD Stream" mode and process the signal in-camera just like the F950 and have it more or less correct going to tape originally.

Edited by David Mullen, 30 December 2005 - 12:57 AM.

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#12 Roman

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 08:34 PM

... need to secure an F950


you may wish to try:
www.keslow.com - they have the 950
www.abelcine.com or www.bvr.com or www.metrovision-nyc.com - might have it (I know they have 900; not sure about the 950. check it out). some of them will have it soon...

www.lvrusa.com
www.tcsfilm.com
www.tamberelli.com

I am sure some of those guys could be able to help... good luck.
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