Jump to content


Photo

DV Capture Question


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 tanvir

tanvir

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:52 AM

Hi,

I am a new user of DV cam, I need a info; will it be ok if I shoot with 3CCD camera and then play the DV cassette on a 1 CCD camera and capture from that? is it possible? or I will looss quality while capturing?

RGDS

Tanvir Ahmed
Dhaka, Bangladesh
tanvir_ahmed@msn.com
  • 0

#2 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:23 AM

I am not 100% sure, but my gut reaction is that there will be no loss in quality. Having said that, using a deck for digitizing and capyuring would be a better than another camera for all sorts of reasons.

best

Tim
  • 0

#3 Scott Squires

Scott Squires
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 December 2005 - 02:11 AM

There's no quality loss with another, cheaper camera. Be aware though some low end cameras don't support timecode. If you're using something like FCP without timecode means that you can't log and batch capture. Most Sony's work fine but some other brands don't.
  • 0

#4 Josh Bass

Josh Bass
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 552 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 December 2005 - 03:25 AM

I have a canon ZR80 I got off ebay for about $200. I suspect it's around $400 new (if they still make 'em). It has no problems with timecode or quality loss.
  • 0

#5 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11939 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:49 AM

Hi,

No, there wouldn't be any difference. The only time you'd have a problem with this would be if the deck was out of alignment on either the record or playback device. I have had this problem on very cheap DV decsk, particularly JVC types, but that's a workshop-repairable fault in the equipment, not something you should expect.

If a tape has timecode recorded on it, it should be maintained through the firewire output even if the camera in question doesn't know how to decode or display it. DV timecode is embedded in the frame's image data and it would be much more work to remove it than it would just to let it go with the picture.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone had an instance of a cheap DV device that didn't output timecode known to be on a tape.

Phil
  • 0

#6 Scott Squires

Scott Squires
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 December 2005 - 09:56 AM

The lower priced panasonic cameras don't provide timecode from DVX100 recorded material, at least not in a way that FCP can see it.
  • 0

#7 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 28 December 2005 - 11:04 AM

Not to be too off the main topic, I was under the impression the mini DV format did not contain timecode at all. A friend recently edited a project shot on film, had dailes made to digibeta and dubbed to mini DV for editing. When he tried to edit he told me the tapes did not contain timecode and he had to make DVcam dubs for his editing. He was using Avid Express and went back to film and conformed the neg to the EDL.

I could call the friend later today for the straight story.

best

Tim
  • 0

#8 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11939 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 December 2005 - 11:43 AM

Hi,

Sigh, this again. Another FAQ candidate?

All DV has data space for the timecode, and every miniDV tape device I have ever used puts data into that space, even if it just starts from zero on a new tape. More professional DV equipment (including DVCAM and DVCPRO) usually offers additional features such as record or free-run timecode and the ability to set the start point, but at the most fundamental level, all DV has timecode.

If a post house has created DV dubs for you that do not include clone timecode, that post house is guilty of a fairly significant professional incompetence. To be fair, I do always make a point of asking specifically for clone timecode in situations like this, since it's a sad fact that many places consider DV to be an "amateur" format, and you often get nasty composite dubs as well, even from other digital formats. This situation irks me greatly, as there's no good technical reason for it other than the post house's superiority complex.

The overriding point here is that no matter how snooty they want to be about DV, they should be equipped and informed sufficiently to get this right. Boutiques as they may be, post houses are a service industry, they're working for the person who pays the bills and they owe that person competent work. I know of at least two places in London who are informed enough to do this work correctly (Metro Broadcast and Stanley Productions, and props to them both) and while it may mean you end up with a DV tape that was recorded on a DVCAM deck, it is possible to get it right - the other way to do it is with an SDI to Firewire convertor, or a component to firewire convertor that handles SMPTE/EBU audio-level timecode, and a real miniDV deck.

If you have been a victim of this problem, take the tapes back to the facility for a refund, as they quite simply have not done the job properly. If they trot out one of the standard "DV doesn't have timecode" lines, take your business elsewhere. As the specialists they are, they should know better.

For the record, this sort of nonsense slips into my personal ire list just below "we can't telecine to DVCAM" and just above "DVCAM is higher resolution than miniDV."

Phil
  • 0

#9 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:24 PM

Hey Phil,

I tried to get in touch with my friend to find out what his experience was to see if my memory was wrong, but he must be away with the holidays and all.

But I do appreciate the time you took to spell it out. My professional strengths are in electric/lighting/production/film and not in the video/post world. My knowledge of DV is limited to my own shorts filmmaking in things shot on film and transferred to beta and dubbed to DV and DVcam, and stuff shot in mini DV, both edited with Final Cut, utilizing After Effects and the like. I do try and keep up with the higher level video camera tech specs and post routines, but until I get that work, the material doesn't seem to stick, no matter how much I throw against the wall.

So what I am basically saying is that I'm not an amatuer, but do need guidance from time to time in the areas I am not specialized in. So thanks in advance for your patience concerning all stupid questions I may post in the future. And the FAQ list would be a great idea. Perhaps even saving forums like cinematography.net (sorry Tim Tyler) would be a great way to go. But with the search feature here, that may be redundant.

Thanks,

Tim
  • 0


Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

CineTape

The Slider

Opal

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

Tai Audio

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

CineTape

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Opal

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery