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Super 8 Possibilities?


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#1 SJ.

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 10:10 AM

Hi- Im just a guy who has his father's old Canon 514xl camera. And im wondering- What kind of things are being done with super 8 film still today? And whats going on in the area of availability in the things needed to use super 8 still?
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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:30 PM

Hi- Im just a guy who has his father's old Canon 514xl camera. And im wondering- What kind of things are being done with super 8 film still today? And whats going on in the area of availability in the things needed to use super 8 still?




Have you done a search on this website or on the web? There are loads and loads of things going on with Super 8. It is enjoying a bit of a renaisance. Try looking on www.filmshooting.org as well as this very informative website.
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#3 A.Oliver

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:42 PM

Hi, kodak offer 5 super 8 filmstocks, sadly they killed kodachrome 40 in may 2005. Your camera therefore will not expose the new 64t filmstock correctly in auto exposure mode. If your located in the uk, here are a couple of cine dealers.
www.aavon.com
www.leescameras.demon.co.uk
www.camcentre.co.uk also clock this site
http://www.learnedco...l.com/cine.html

Edited by k25rip, 30 December 2005 - 12:44 PM.

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#4 SJ.

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 04:23 PM

Have you done a search on this website or on the web? There are loads and loads of things going on with Super 8. It is enjoying a bit of a renaisance. Try looking on www.filmshooting.org as well as this very informative website.


I have done some research- And im very excited to get involved. Just wondering what is being done, so I can get some ideas of my own? I will check this site out! Thanks!


Hi, kodak offer 5 super 8 filmstocks, sadly they killed kodachrome 40 in may 2005. Your camera therefore will not expose the new 64t filmstock correctly in auto exposure mode. If your located in the uk, here are a couple of cine dealers.
www.aavon.com
www.leescameras.demon.co.uk
www.camcentre.co.uk also clock this site
http://www.learnedco...l.com/cine.html


So this means my camera is worthless to me? I was hoping not to have to find a new one. Unfortunately- I am in the States-- Chicago. Any suggestions on a different camera? Thanks!

Edited by SJ., 30 December 2005 - 04:30 PM.

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#5 Jason Maeda

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 06:08 PM

worthless?

http://www.bhphotovi...oughType=search

i have used this meter for probably 10 years when i shoot super-8 (my 1014xls came with a broken meter...i never even cared enough to check it) i challenge anyone on this site to come up with more accurate readings in changing sunlight with a moving camera faster than i can using only this fisher price looking meter. it's all just practice and knowing what you want to see on film anyway...soon enough you'll end up not even using a meter except for the most difficult situations and for strobes.

jk :ph34r:
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#6 Michael Ryan

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 06:18 PM

Hello SJ,

There is lots going on in the Super 8 world. I have used the Canon 514XLS, I don't know if it's exactly the
same as your model, but you can "lock" the F stop where ever you want (kind of a poor man's manual
exposure). So, using this method you would be able to use any of Kodak's new film stocks (your finger
may become a little sore).

Search the internet and you might want to pick up a copy of the new Super 8 magazine SUPER 8 TODAY.
You can check out their site at www.super8today.com

Mike
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#7 SJ.

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 04:25 AM

Hello SJ,

There is lots going on in the Super 8 world. I have used the Canon 514XLS, I don't know if it's exactly the
same as your model, but you can "lock" the F stop where ever you want (kind of a poor man's manual
exposure). So, using this method you would be able to use any of Kodak's new film stocks (your finger
may become a little sore).


So i can use the auto and then lock it at the exposure that i want- maybe just tape the lever down? I would need to use a light meter then to find where to lock the f-stop correct? Sorry - I am VERY new to all this. I will definitely pick up a copy of the mag, Im surprised that there even is a magazine still about super 8!
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#8 A.Oliver

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 06:30 AM

Hi, just to make you aware the new 64t film is a reversal film that can be projected after processing. If your camera is telling you the scene is f8, with the 64t filmstock you need to add 2/3 of a stop ( thats two thirds ), exposure will be just under F11. Also you will need to purchase an 85B filter ( 43mm thread i think) in order to obtain the corect colour balance with the 64t. You must also switch your camera to artificial lite when using the 85b filter. If you can, try and locate a roll of super 8 k40, put this thru the camera, this will firstly test out the camera, save you buying a filter, exp meter, and getting ya head around adding 2/3rds of a stop each time you film a scene. The 514xl is a great camera (i do wish canon made it with 24fps) it has a good lens, the auto exp lock lever is good for what it is, but may prove to fiddly in the long term for manual exposure. You could try ebay for a roll of k40.
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#9 SJ.

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 08:05 AM

Hi, just to make you aware the new 64t film is a reversal film that can be projected after processing. If your camera is telling you the scene is f8, with the 64t filmstock you need to add 2/3 of a stop ( thats two thirds ), exposure will be just under F11. Also you will need to purchase an 85B filter ( 43mm thread i think) in order to obtain the corect colour balance with the 64t. You must also switch your camera to artificial lite when using the 85b filter. If you can, try and locate a roll of super 8 k40, put this thru the camera, this will firstly test out the camera, save you buying a filter, exp meter, and getting ya head around adding 2/3rds of a stop each time you film a scene. The 514xl is a great camera (i do wish canon made it with 24fps) it has a good lens, the auto exp lock lever is good for what it is, but may prove to fiddly in the long term for manual exposure. You could try ebay for a roll of k40.


So im looking at a) buying a "new" camera that will expose the 64t film correctly or B) make sure i am aware of adding stops when i film, purchasing a filter, and dealing with camera limitations (lower fps, having to lock the f-stop).

I guess my next question is: Is it worth the hassle? or should i just get over my "not wanting to buy a new camera" and just do it? Especially looking into the long-term pros and cons...

SJ

Edited by SJ., 31 December 2005 - 08:07 AM.

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#10 A.Oliver

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 09:04 AM

Well if you are serious about super 8, then my advice would be get a camera that can expose the film correctly in auto mode, also a camera that can run at 24fps. I reluctantly sold my canon 514 and 514xls in May, one week after the announcement of the end of k40, also sold all the other cameras which cannot read the new 64t, with the exception of a canon 310xl. i try and manually expose all shots, however there are times when auto is very usefull, say at a wedding when time is against you on that candid cutaway. Why not try the 514 for at least one cartridge, use the cameras inbuilt filter, locking the exposure for each scene. Then make a decision on another camera.
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#11 Michael Ryan

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 09:51 AM

Hello SJ,

I think you should give your 514XLS a try just to see how it goes. You may like it. The 514XLS
that I use does have 24 fps. How you use the exposure lock is a little bit tricky, but it will work.
You aim the camera at something brighter (the F stop wheel in the view finder goes up the scale) or you
aim it at something that is darker (the F stop wheel goes down the scale). As you aim at something darker, or lighter when the F stop wheel gets to the F stop you want to use, that's when you press the exposure lock.

Shoot a test roll and don't worry too much. Most modern films have a fairly good exposure latitude.


Mike
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#12 Nate Downes

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 10:52 AM

Your canon is an ideal learning tool, but yes, 64T does pose a challenge. Not an insurmountable one, however.

I think you have a good starter camera, but I would suggest starting with a B&W filmstock like Plus-X or Tri-X to get a feel for the mechanism. If you process these using the old chemistry, the camera will even expose them properly without any needs for adjustment.
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#13 Freya Black

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 11:38 AM

Hey why this obssesion with 64T? You could shoot vision2 200T in that camera with the internal meter assuming it is working and while it may not get the exposure band on, because it is negative and not reversal it will be able to deal with the slight difference. Reversal if very fussy that you get your settings right. On the downside you can't project it, or maybe you could try to but it will look all wierd. ;) Telecine is expensive and you will need to transfer your film to video if you want to see it properly.

If you want to be able to project then it is a choice of black and white or the 64T. I'm not sure where you are located but if you are in the states then you can buy and process 64T cheaply. It's different in Europe.

There is a question as to whether your meter is still working properly on this camera as it is usually the first thing to go bad. Assuming it is then it shouldn't be that hard to work out a setting that you can shoot 64T with. I think there will be a setting for +1 which means add one stop to the meter reading. This will underexpose the film a tiny, tiny bit because it is only supposed to be a 2/3 stop, but that might even be a good thing. As you say you could just then tape that control in place. (I can tell you are getting the hang on this super8 stuff!). Anyway, your camera might not work quite like that you will have to do some reasearch as I'm guessing slightly but that is what I suspect.

The canon camera is actually a good camera IMHO. There are better cameras but most of them are a lot worse. Most of the cameras I have are nowhere near as nice as that one. Canon make good lenses as a rule. A lot of the cameras out there for super8 are made by chinon. Even the ons that don't say chinon on them and personally I think the lenses on those are horrid. Even the 18fps doesn't have to be bad. It means that you can shoot film for longer! 3 minutes 20 per cart instead of 2 minutes 40. I expect you could do great things with your camera. Music video's, shorts, etc etc..

I think you should have a scout around and see if you can find a box of K40 in a photo shop out there somewhere. Might be possible if you try.

You'll find that the S8 world is on a bit of a downer about everything because of the K40 stuff at the moment. Still lots of people grieving, but theres still lots to be happy about with S8! :)

love

Freya
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#14 SJ.

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:05 PM

Way too much here for me to quote! haha.

So Im going to try my camera with a roll of one of the black and white films.. I would try to get a cartridge of k40, but why tease myself? I think I'd rather come into this thinking its dead :unsure: then i wont be as disappointed. Also i think reversal film is my type of film.. Why would someone want negatives instead of something you can project?

Ill let you know after I do that-- I think if it turns out to be too much for me, I'll just get me a nicer one.

A few questions though- This 2/3's business when locking my f-stop. 2/3 of what? can someone explain that? and question number 2- In terms of quality and effects- how is 18fps going to look compared to 24fps?

Thanks!
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:18 PM

So Im going to try my camera with a roll of one of the black and white films.. I would try to get a cartridge of k40, but why tease myself? I think I'd rather come into this thinking its dead :unsure: then i wont be as disappointed. Also i think reversal film is my type of film.. Why would someone want negatives instead of something you can project?


You can still shoot K40 and get it processed, so why not -- what's the risk? Or shoot E64T if you want. Or b&w reversal -- it's particularly beautiful, I think. I used to shoot a lot of my projects on Super-8 Plus-X b&w reversal.

The reason why people might like to shoot neg for Super-8 is because they aren't planning on projecting the original. Neg is better optimized for transfer to video because of its lower contrast than reversal, plus the higher speed is useful in low-light situations.
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#16 Stephen Phipps

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:28 PM

That's a fine camera and I'd give it a chance before buying something else. First off I'd just buy some 64T, throw it in the Canon, and let it automatically expose like K40 without doing anything special. Just make sure you're shooting in outdoor daylight mode with the built in 85 filter engaged. 64T isn't that far off from K40 and many folks are getting very good results shooting 64T in 40/160 auto only cameras. If you don't like the results, you can start playing with the manual exposure controls.

I'm sure there's a camera store or two around Chicago selling 64T. If you're having problems finding it locally, ask that question over on http://www.filmshooting.com

Go to Walmart for processing. They'll send it to Dwayne's and you'll get it back within 2 weeks for $4.88 total.

If you don't have a projector, check local thrift stores and flea markets. Super 8 projectors can be had for $10 or less going this route... same projectors sell for $50 or more on Ebay. Just make sure the bulb and drive mechanisms work before buying.
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#17 Freya Black

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:51 PM

Give the K40 a go, it's cheap, it's nice and as the saying goes, it's better to regret something you have done thean something you havn't done. I think there might be exceptions to this rule but you know..

Whats more K40 is the one stock that will work in your camera completely normally, so it's a good way of testing the camera.

Have a go with some 64 T too I think. You are in the states so it is cheap. Even if it ends up being overexposed it might still look interesting. I just watched a music video that had some overexposed reversal and I quite liked what they did with it. It can work as an interesting effect.

It's only 2/3 of a stop overexposure anyway. It's not that much even in spite of reversals lack of latitude, worth a shot.

Some People prefer negative because it has a different look, there are faster films available, it is easier to shoot with because you don't have to get your meter readings spot on and you can mess with it a lot more in telecine to get the look you want...

But I kind of Agree projecting is a lot of fun. It's great to see your own films on the big screen. The thing I would miss with negative is getting it back from processing and putting it in my little viewer editor and turning the handle! Magic stuff! :)

24 vs 18, thees not going to be a lot of difference projected, I guess if you were to do really fast pans they mifht look more jerky or stroby or something but mostly it doesn't matter. It can be harder to transfer to video with low end transfers but proper transfers don't mind either. 24fps might look a bit sharper too because there is more silver for each second but it's not a big deal I think. If you are just starting I think it's better to have the extra running time. Film is expensive enough.

love

Freya
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#18 Steppenwolf

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 08:57 PM

As a completely rookie, i've also started testing different types of Super8 cameras, with B&W reversal films and i must say that i'm really excited of the results. Off course sometimes, you do things wrong, but this is also good, in order to know your camera very well. For videoclips and artistic piece of work this gadget is just great. Sometimes, even if you have bad results or weird visuals it is great for the final films as well for artistic spirit. Test your camera and enjoy it, you will not regret.

Jonathan.
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#19 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 02:22 AM

www.onsuper8.org is a good site for current happenings in super 8

Rick
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#20 SJ.

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 08:41 AM

A question about places to buy-

Ive always been afraid of buying from ebay.. But ive yet to see a store selling super-8 cameras.. maybe at local thrift shops, but Id hate to waste my money at one, or on ebay for that matter, on a camera that isnt going to work.


How can I find places that are selling the equipment I need?
Anyone know somewhere near the chicagoland area?

SJ
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Glidecam

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

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Aerial Filmworks

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Opal

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc