Jump to content


Photo

24f mode on the XL-H1 does in fact record 24p to tape...


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

Mr. Shannon W. Rawls
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Producer
  • Lemiert Park(Hollywood), CA.

Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:56 PM

David Mullen & friends,

"Don't beleive everyting you read on the Internet"
I have been preaching that for ages.

Here's my last lesson on the 24f mode from Canon's XL-H1 HD camera:

Other companies often claim allot and come up short therefore dissapointing their consumers. I beleive the reason Canon is laid back and quiet about the XL-H1 is because it's better to claim a little and show allot.

Far too often have companies "Talked the Talk". But when it came time to "Walk the Walk" they tripped up and fell. I think Canon is letting the XL-H1's footage do the speaking for itself, but then you have people/moles with alternative motives who never even touched the camera out there writing bad reports and making up untruths about it. And then you go and read that report and take it for gospel. And for me atleast, it gets tiring to read people saying stuff when they have no idea of what they're talking about. So yes, I do jump defensive, I'm guilty of that. But don't knock it 'till you try it....that's all I ask. Be fair.

I remember when they announced the HVX-200 about 10 months ago, it was the freakin' Holy Grail of cameras if you ask them. People were talking about it like it was the messiah coming to save their indie projects or something. C'mon, you remember too! *smile* It was crazy! I would be on set hearing these discussions at lunch about how it's the END ALL BE ALL of handheld camcorders.

Now that it's here....all those people have somehow dissapeared. All of a sudden it's not so hot anymore. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE EXCITEMENT??? Where are all those people singing cultish chants and cow-towing for the coming of the HVX-200?

And get this....I'm buying one myself as well!

And the moment I hear someone say one thing that's not true about HVX-200 camera, I'm gonna jump down his/her throat as well! All I ask is to be fair and KNOW what you're talking about. Not what you heard or read on the net.

Now David, I know you don't beleive anything I said about the Canon XL-H1 and its 24p recording capabilities. Everyone seems to keep putting words in my mouth about post production and all.

Therefore, please allow me to copy/paste word for word what's printed on Page 56 of the official Canon XL-H1 owners manual. If this is not good enough for you, then I don't know what is:

60i Mode
Records in 60 fps interlaced mode, the same as TV signals

30F Mode
Records in 30 fps progressive mode and outputs signals converted into 60 fps interlaced

24F Mode
[HD] Records in 24 fps progressive mode. During playback the signals are down-converted to 60fps interlaced using 2:3 pulldown method. While recording, if the HDV/DV terminal is set to HDV output, the output signal will be 24 fps progressive. The signal output from the HD/SD-SDI terminal and the COMPONENT OUT (D-) terminal will be down-converted to 60fps using the 2:3 pulldown method.


There you have it. Word for Word, unadulterated words from Canon themselves. Unlike the Sony HVR-Z1U that records 60i at all times (that I also own), the Canon does not do that. As I said before, the Sony, in ALL modes, will play on the Canon XL-H1 and the XL-H1 detects ALL MODES from the Z1U as 60i including CineFrame 24 & 30. The Sony will only play the Canon's 60i footage. it flashes "UNSUPPORTED FORMAT" if you try to play 24f or 30f footage.... Why is that?...because its RECORDED TO TAPE as 24p and 30p!!!!!! So tell me, what does the term "24 fps progressive" mean to you? Doesn't that mean 24P in your dictionary of abbreviations?? NO?????? You've got to be kidding right?

Now David, I don't know if that's good enough for you. I surely hope it is. Not only does the manual say this...I have personally TESTED this by capturing footage with my Canon XL-H1 so I KNOW it is true. Now do you beleive that my original post is 100% correct?

Now do you beleive that the Canon XL-H1 is a camera that records "24P"????

Please tell me you're not going to come up with something else to say to detour the issue at hand. Please don't start talking about the scanning of the CCD's and all that crap. Let's focus on the nitty-gritty. The IMPORTANT stuff......

......Instead, let's talk IMAGE and how PRETTY this 24P(twentyFourPee) footage is that is recorded by the XL-H1...

Please David?

- ShannonRawls.com

Edited by ShannonRawls, 03 January 2006 - 04:03 PM.

  • 0

#2 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 03 January 2006 - 07:11 PM

Does it record 1080p @ 24p like the HVX200?
Thanks
  • 0

#3 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 03 January 2006 - 11:54 PM

If I understand all that correctly, then you're right and I was wrong. I'm just surprised at how Canon buries that information then because they certainly don't say in most of the specs listed in ads, whatnot, that it records 24P/1080 to tape.

I spent some time searching before I originally answered your first post because I wasn't sure. You look at the specs of the other HD cameras and they are pretty clear in listing all the recording modes offered. All I could ever find is that the Canon camera records "HDV 1080i".

The fact that even what they write in the manual doesn't specifically state that what is recorded to tape is 24P/1080, versus 24P/720, let's say, is a little odd, so I'm still a little suspicious. It seems odd that on playback of the recording, it converts it to 60i/1080 with a 3:2 pulldown if desired, but maybe this explains why the camera is not supported by any external HDV decks.

But for now, I'd say that you are right to claim that the camera outputs 24P, even if it does not capture in 24P. Not that I'd call it a true 24P camera though, but for all practical purposes, it may be close enough.
  • 0

#4 Robert Sanders

Robert Sanders
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Director
  • Studio City, CA

Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:00 PM

Does it record 1080p @ 24p like the HVX200?
Thanks


The HVX200 uses massive verticle AND horizontal pixel-shifting to "emulate" 1080P. Because Panasonic REFUSES to publish the CCD's specifications, we can only speculate that it's a 960x720 chip.

The Canon uses a true 1440x1080 chip. Yes it's interlaced, but the DigicII processor, one of the best processors on the market in this category, interpolates the fields and creates some spectacular images. Canon has spent considerable effort and time in research and developing their own unique camera CPU technology, designed specifically for photography and as a result its? processing power is many times faster than the competition. This allows for most accurate color and detail processing, minimal shutter lag and enhanced photographic operations. In fact, the Digic DVII HD processor is fast enough to enable simultaneous recording of both HD video and megapixel still images at the same time. Now you can truly capture the moment. Designed by Canon engineers from the ground up for photography, this is the same CPU technology that empowers Canon's digital still cameras - now available in the XL H1.

I'm just a fan of Canon's. I hated the XL1. I love the XL2. I'm looking forward to owning the XL-H1.
  • 0

#5 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11937 posts
  • Other

Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:37 PM

Hi,

> Canon has spent considerable effort and time in research and developing their own unique camera CPU technology

Translation: they designed an FPGA, and burned it as an ASIC, just like everyone else, but they want to make you believe that Canon's 1+1=2 is better than everyone else's.

Phil
  • 0

#6 Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

Mr. Shannon W. Rawls
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Producer
  • Lemiert Park(Hollywood), CA.

Posted 04 January 2006 - 07:43 PM

Why are people such Haters?

I'll never understand that.

- ShannonRawls.com
  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:07 PM

Why are people such Haters?

I'll never understand that.

- ShannonRawls.com


If a certain amount of hostility is following you around when you post, perhaps the fault is not entirely on everyone else. You have a confrontational, hyperactive tone to your writing that causes more confusion and argument than is really necessary if you simply slowed down and wrote more calmly and factually, without all the emotional !!!, ???, and CAPITAL LETTERS, etc. (I do that too, I admit, but less often.) It makes us feel like you're screaming at us in a shrill tone. Maybe it's your way to generate discussion and excitement, but it tends to cause other people to respond emotionally.

Only a suggestion.

Edited by David Mullen, 04 January 2006 - 09:08 PM.

  • 0

#8 Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

Mr. Shannon W. Rawls
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts
  • Producer
  • Lemiert Park(Hollywood), CA.

Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:27 PM

LOL

hostility following me around? what on earth are you talking about?
I was refering to what someone said about Canon and thier technology. And he wasn't even refering to someting I said, he was talking to Starway.
LOL

What are you talking about dude?

LOOK....this is my FIFTH ATTEMPT at this David.....
Can we talk about someting else?
Like moviemaking? that's more interesting to me.

(who will be compelled to keep this argument going by replying with some nonsense)

- ShannonRawls.com - I'm building my post count so I can be accepted *smile*

Edited by ShannonRawls, 04 January 2006 - 09:28 PM.

  • 0


Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

CineLab

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

The Slider

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks