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shooting uncorrected tungsten in daylight


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#1 Thomas Cousin

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:05 AM

hello and happy new year.

while reading the beautiful book "new cinematographers" by alexander ballinger, i found harris savides saying "on almost every commercials and video i do , i shoot tungsten film in daylight situations, which just makes a cleaner negative for telecine". apparently, he means he doesn't balance with filter during the shooting.
but what exactly does he mean by that ? "cleaner negative" ? how ?

thank you for lighting this up.

thomas
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#2 Mike Crane

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

My understanding is that daylight balanced film will deliver a cleaner (more grainless) picture when used for daylight situations. This relates (according to kodak) to the blue color layer in the film.
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#3 Mike Panczenko

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 02:08 PM

Well, one thing is that without the 85, there is less chance of any imperfections in the filter (ie dust, scratches, etc.) but also, shooting tungsten in daylight, you are overexposing the blue layer, which can reduce the graininess of the stock, same as when you overexpose a stock and print down.
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#4 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:06 PM

If you shoot a tungsten balance film with uncorrected daylight illumination, you will get a mismatch in exposure of the three color records, with the red getting too little exposure, and the blue getting too much exposure. With the excellent latitude of color negative films, you may be able to correct in post production, but there may be some uncorrectable coloration in the shadows if you underexpose.

Best to use a daylight balance film, or the proper 85 correction filtration.
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#5 Gregory Almond

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 01:18 PM

I am also curious about this because in a current film project, we are in the middle of getting film tests back from Pak-Lab, (its been an agonizing two weeks.) My intention as is to shoot Tungsten balanced film in Daylight Exteriors, in order to get that muted overcast blue look. Right now the plan is to use the Kodak Vision 200T film, with ND. Unfortunately i am slightly hesitant just because we haven't received our test footage back yet, unfortunately our schedule doesn't permit much more time being used and i am more and more getting forced into making decisions based off of what i know about the film in paper than i do on film.

Should i shoot a stop over in order to balance down the hot blues and make them cooler, or shoot at the normal 200ASA for the film?

any guidance is much appreciated
Gregory Almond
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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:25 AM

I would give it some healthy overexposure. 2/3 of a stop is what I like. A full stop would be about the most I would be comfortable with without some good testing. A thick negative will help to ensure that the information is there for you to do the corrections you want.

I think a lot of people do this correction on post nowadays. While watching special features for Dazed and Confused (deleted scenes with no color correction), I noticed that the exteriors for that film was approached like that, and it has LOTS of exteriors.
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#7 Dominic Case

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 09:09 PM

I opened this topic without realising it was an old one revived. Saw John Pytlak's comment :blink:

He made the right point though. If you shoot T film in daylight, you will be overexposing the blue-sensitive layer.

If you overexpose on top of that, you will seriously overexpose the blue layer. That could lead to increased noise in that layer when you do the transfer. I understand you won't colour correct much beause you wnat to retain a blue look - but still, overexposure is overexposure, and it does introduce tonal distortion.

Tungsten-balanced emulsions have increased sensitivity in the blue-sensitive layer, because there isn't so much blue in tungsten light. So a daylight balanced stock of the equivalent EI rating will actually have a slower (and therefore less grainy) blue-sensitive layer.
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