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A couple of questions


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#1 Evan Cox

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 04:55 PM

I have got a few questions. First, if I have a 50ft magazine, and I want to load the film on my own, is it possible to buy 100ft rolls and cut them in half? Would this ruin the film? Also, could somebody please help me to try and understand what the f/ ring does, and how I should set it under what circumstances.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 07:45 PM

What 16mm camera uses 50' magazines? Remember that 100' rolls are on metal daylight spools and 400' rolls are on plastic cores.

An f-stop is a basic photography concept so look in some basic photography books. It controls the size of the hole in the back of the lens (the lens iris) which controls how much light gets through.

The smaller numbers like f/2.0, f/2.8, etc. have the larger opening and the highest numbers like f/16 have the smaller openings, so you tend to use the wider aperture in lower light levels, the closed-down aperture in high light levels.

You'll need a light meter to use the lens. Set your meter to the ASA / ISO / EI rating (the sensitivity of the film), the shutter speed to the camera (at 24 fps with a standard 180 degree shutter, that's 1/48th of a second) and take a meter reading outside in the sun. You'll probably find that with 50 ASA film, you'll be a little over f/16 in direct sunlight. So then you'd set your lens to the f-stop that the meter told you and therefore expose the film more or less normally.
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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 10:57 PM

I have got a few questions. First, if I have a 50ft magazine, and I want to load the film on my own, is it possible to buy 100ft rolls and cut them in half? Would this ruin the film?


Bought one of those B&H 200 units did ya?

First of all, the 50 ft Magzines are designed to use Double perf film. Kodak has made that a special order item. You may be able to get FOMA B&W in double perf.

Second you will have to build a jig to respool the film onto the core out of your magazine. It is a special size. You have to respool the film in the dark, and for best results, you have to wind the film all the way onto another reel, and then rewind it onto the supply core of your mag.

Finaly still in the dark, you have to thread the mag, noting that the film goes over the central sproket TWICE. Once you have the mag closed, you can replece the two screws and then turn on the light.

You might want to ask the folks at Java Photo in Athens Ga. They recently had some Government surplus Mags already loaded with Old Plus-x. They also sold me some Plus-x double perf film on 100 ft spools out of their frezer which if I read the date code right was made 15 years ago! (but it still gave usable images) They even once said that they had a bunch of reloads for magazines which are already cut to length and wound on the right cores to fit the mags. Thay may have sold out of those by now.

BTW by dark, I mean so dark that if you sit for 10 minutes you still can't see your hand in front of your face. You might be able to do this in a changing bag, but their are so many small parts in those mags that you probaly have to have a table to work on.

Note that I have _NOT_ actully done this. I took the cover off an old outdated K-12 Kodachome mag to look, and decided that the Filmo magazine camera whould remain in its resting spot under the bench. My regular Filmo 70 is enjoying the lens off the B&H 200
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#4 Evan Kubota

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 01:27 AM

Reloading the 50' mags is a huge pain - probably better off getting a camera that takes normal 100' daylight loads.

FWIW, Kodak has some double-perf stocks that are not special order and are regular stocked items, although the people on the 621-FILM line don't seem to know this and will only check if you insist.

In a few days, I can get the part number from some double-perf Plus-X that I ordered a while ago. However, there were only 2 100' rolls in the warehouse each time I called (about 2 weeks apart) so I was never able to order more than 2 at a time.

Bought one of those B&H 200 units did ya?

First of all, the 50 ft Magzines are designed to use Double perf film. Kodak has made that a special order item. You may be able to get FOMA B&W in double perf.

Second you will have to build a jig to respool the film onto the core out of your magazine. It is a special size. You have to respool the film in the dark, and for best results, you have to wind the film all the way onto another reel, and then rewind it onto the supply core of your mag.

Finaly still in the dark, you have to thread the mag, noting that the film goes over the central sproket TWICE. Once you have the mag closed, you can replece the two screws and then turn on the light.

You might want to ask the folks at Java Photo in Athens Ga. They recently had some Government surplus Mags already loaded with Old Plus-x. They also sold me some Plus-x double perf film on 100 ft spools out of their frezer which if I read the date code right was made 15 years ago! (but it still gave usable images) They even once said that they had a bunch of reloads for magazines which are already cut to length and wound on the right cores to fit the mags. Thay may have sold out of those by now.

BTW by dark, I mean so dark that if you sit for 10 minutes you still can't see your hand in front of your face. You might be able to do this in a changing bag, but their are so many small parts in those mags that you probaly have to have a table to work on.

Note that I have _NOT_ actully done this. I took the cover off an old outdated K-12 Kodachome mag to look, and decided that the Filmo magazine camera whould remain in its resting spot under the bench. My regular Filmo 70 is enjoying the lens off the B&H 200


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#5 Michael Collier

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 09:19 AM

Sounds like this is your first time shooting anything other than consumer grade camcorders?

Read a lot before you shoot the first spool.

read some more. get kris malkiewicz' CINEMATOGRAPHY. very technical, lots of good information. Dont just thumb through it like a novel, you must try to understand a lot of foriegn concepts, so pay attention and think about how to apply that information.

Read these forums. I recomend the 'in production' section. There you can read reports about how other people attack their job. Anything by David Mullen is good.

The first time you load your camera, dont worry about doing it in the dark. Take 50ft of stock (if it has to be cut from a larger stock, do this part in the dark) and practice loading it in the light. Once that becomes natural close your eyes and repeat until you can do it easily, you will loose that practice stock, but it will end up saving more than the price of that 50 feet. After enough practice, try it in the dark with stock you plan on shooting.

Get some cheap lights for your first projects. If you dont have money for lowell totas or omnis (about 300 each with stand, barn doors and umbrella reflector) then get some aluminum bell reflectors at home depot. They have a clamp on one side and take normal household lights. Also get some halogens while at home depot. I think they are like 30 bucks each, put out 500w of light on each of the two heads and comes on a stand. Bounce these off walls and foamcore to reduce harsh shadows these put off.

And dont stop reading. You can get results from the first roll (with luck) but professional results takes time and a lot of reading. Art will take longer to develop, and will take lifelong dedication (if this is a career or hobby you plan to pursue)

Oh by the way. Read more. Complete understanding the physics of the camera, of film stock, and of lights will make it easier for you to control the image, and shape it to your vision. Watch as many movies as you can and watch closely to how it is shot. Note what you like and dont like.
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#6 Joe Gioielli

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 05:29 PM

Best advice is to read. Get a book on 35mm to start with. It will explain all the basics. It really isn't "Hard", more "complex". Everything is interrelated. But don't worry, you'll get it. And don't be afraid to make mistakes. We all make them.

I might also suggest a less complicated camera. I have a K3 that I'm very happy with. It was about $200. I;ve had no problems with it.

Enjoy

Joe
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#7 gregorscheer

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:56 PM

Interesting I just got one of these little cameras, from ebay, thought they might be cool for stealth and stuff like attaching them to a model boat, bikes, helmets, ski etc. Having troubles to find the magazines though.
I'm of course disappointed to understand that they need double perf film.

You might like to know that there is one company that provides loaded mags for these cameras

here you go: http://www.alangordo...cam16_mags.html

for self loading I train with some exposed film that I had bought on ebay for that purpous. You avtually gat a Can a 1200' metal reel and lots of film for training for under $10 including shipping.
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#8 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 09:39 PM

You might like to know that there is one company that provides loaded mags for these cameras

here you go: http://www.alangordo...cam16_mags.html


Kodak sold that business to Allan Gordon some time ago.

http://www.athens.ne...a/filmpage.html sometimes list some on e-bay. see Item number: 3860642512 for example, at his price, they are considerably cheaper than allan gordon wants for the empity mags
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