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Using 64t: am I missing something?


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#1 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 10:25 AM

I'm currently contemplating to buy a another camera and would prefer a simple and compact one. Downside is that most amateur cameras and even the more expensive Bauers will read Ektachrome 64t as beeing K40 and some won't even let you adjust the aperture manually.
How about setting the camera to tungsten thereby swinging ot the 85 Filter (replace it with a 85b in front of the lens) and setting the camera to 40 ASA. Shouldn't that work for all cameras with TTL meters or am I missing something? Is a 85b all I need to get around this problem as long as use I daylight?

best

Stefan

Edited by pinkelephant, 13 January 2006 - 10:31 AM.

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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:46 AM

That would put you back where you started. The meter would take into account the 85 and open up as usual, giving a daylight speed of 25 ISO. You'd need to swing out the filter, lock the exposure, then swing back the filter. You'd then have a meter reading taken at 40 ISO but with the filter in- which is correct, ISO wise. However, and I'm sure there will be more learned posts later from people who've actually used the stuff, the camera filter is an 85A and for 64T you really need an 85B, which is why some of the clips out there look a bit blue- they're not corrected enough for daylight. K40 was type A tungsten, E64 is type B and needs another 200K of correction
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#3 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

That would put you back where you started.


Thanks Mark, I think I got it. You get the same exposure if you put the filter in front of the film and the meter to 25 ASA or the filter in front of the meter cell and the meter to 40 ASA.
But how about a Canon 310XL with its external metering system? Setting it to tungsten should remove the filter and set it to 40 ASA. An additional 85b would balance the colour and reduce 64t's sensitivity to 40 ASA with no effect on the external metering cell. Wouldn't that work or am I chasing blue mice?

Stefan
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#4 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

Canon, Nikon, Nizo, Beaulieu will all read 64T and a range of ASA from 12-400/640. If your buying a camera, stick with one of the many that will work... Bauer is one of the few better cams that will only read 40/160
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#5 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 02:46 PM

Hi, want a compact ish camera. A primitive no frills camera that has one of the sharpest lenses on a super 8 camera, hardly any features, horrible way of adjusting manual exposure, and widely over looked. Hence a rare ebay bargin is....... zeiss moviflex ms8 or gs8. Just purchased a gs8 so i cannot comment. The ms8 has a 9-36 zeiss zoom lens, 18+24fps and can read 64t. k40 images from the ms8 have to be seen to be believed.
Andy
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#6 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 03:40 PM

Hence a rare ebay bargin is....... zeiss moviflex ms8 or gs8.

After reading your older comments in this forum about this camera I put several MS8 on my ebay watchlist. The last one went for 7.50 EUR. If you can recommend other cameras in this price range I might start a collection! Does it need a 1.35V battery?

Stefan
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#7 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 03:58 PM

After reading your older comments in this forum about this camera I put several MS8 on my ebay watchlist. The last one went for 7.50 EUR. If you can recommend other cameras in this price range I might start a collection! Does it need a 1.35V battery?

Stefan

No, camera does not require a 1.35v batt. works on 4 LR6 batteries.
Andy
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#8 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 07:43 PM

But how about a Canon 310XL with its external metering system? Setting it to tungsten should remove the filter and set it to 40 ASA. An additional 85b would balance the colour and reduce 64t's sensitivity to 40 ASA with no effect on the external metering cell. Wouldn't that work or am I chasing blue mice?

Stefan

In any case, what you have said here is correct. With a non-ttl meter on a camera with automatic exposure readings, using an 85B on the lens will effectivly correct the 40/64 issue. I like the bauer cameras even though they only read 40 and 160. When I don't want to use an external light meter, you can, as said above, switch the 85A filter 'out', get a reading, and switch back and roll the manual exposure to where it was indicated. After a few goes, you can skip the first step and just roll the manual exposure wheel a tiny bit by eye after getting an a auto exposure ttl reading. This is very fast.
TTL metering with auto exposure setting is one of the advantages of S8 cameras. Auto exposure is not desirable in the majority of conventional narrative filmmaking situations - but sometimes great for the kind of 'gorilla' filmmaking possible in S8!

Edited by Richard P. T., 13 January 2006 - 07:45 PM.

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#9 S8 Booster

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 04:21 AM

canon 310xl will expose the 64T at 160.

however, add a slight bit of tape on the cart film speed notch and it will be set to 40. search filmshooting.com for one of my old posts on this.

since the 310xl use an separate "electric" eye for auto exposure control (ala Scoopic 16) and not ttl measuring you can add a ND filter on the lens top to match exposure right on and even match with an external 85B on lens too for a perfect exposure setting if you mod the cart.

more on this in the same post at filmshooting.com

i am pretty sure canon 514 XLXS will set teh fil spees the same way. however it is a TTL cam so the only way to get around this is to mod the cart to "40" to get a close match.

all 8/1014s do read the 64 correctly as far as i know and definately the A/Z/E/XLS models

s/hoot

Edited by S8 Booster, 14 January 2006 - 04:22 AM.

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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:37 PM

There's a piece on wikipedia about cartridge notch lengths so you can recalibrate. You're quite right about the non-TTL meter. If it reads at 40, then an 85B on the lens will do the trick for E64. My answer assumed a TTL meter.
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#11 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 02:33 PM

My answer assumed a TTL meter.

That was exactly where I started and you pushed me in the rigtht direction. Thanks again!
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#12 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 04:50 PM

My new Moviflex S8 was in the mail today (I decided that I don't need an MS8/GS8 right now and could add those later). I came with a manual and everything seems to work fine. I wonder why everyone complains about the manual mode. Sure, you either have to put a finger, thumb or palm on the aperture wheel or use a cable release but on my camera the wheel is easy to adjust and a soft touch is enough to keep it where it's set to.

The only thing that I'm slightly worried about are small black dust specs on the back of the lens which is otherwise clear and clean. The dust is not on the filter as I made myself a filter-key and swung it out of the way. I tried to blow it away with canned air through the running shutter. Nothing was damaged fortunately but it also didn't remove the dust.

Could please someone do me the favor and tell me, that I shouldn't worry to much and keep my fingers away from the cameras internals as long as everything else works like a charm.

Thank you ;)

Stefan

Edited by pinkelephant, 19 January 2006 - 04:52 PM.

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#13 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 03:56 AM

The Small Black Specs are on the back of the lens and not the viewfinder because...???
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#14 Mark Dunn

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 05:34 AM

'Gorilla' filmmaking. I love it.
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#15 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:23 AM

The Small Black Specs are on the back of the lens and not the viewfinder because...???

I'm looking through the film gate and suspect I see what the film sees e.g. the filter going in and out when I insert the filter key while running the camera. The finder looked perfectly clear and crisp after I cleaned it btw.

The camera handles very well and has a nice heft to it without feeeling clunky. Anyone knows its shutter degree to calculate exposure times? In a very small diagramm in an article which came with the camera it looks like exactly 180 deg. and the manual states 1/36 sec as the time for single exposures. Is it safe to assume 1/48 sec for 24fps and 1/36 sec for 18 fps?

Stefan
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#16 Stefan Kahlert

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:30 AM

Ups, just bought a Moviflex GS8 for 43 EUR including shipping and 14 day return policy. :rolleyes:

Stefan
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#17 Clive Tobin

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:30 PM

...the manual states 1/36 sec as the time for single exposures. Is it safe to assume 1/48 sec for 24fps and 1/36 sec for 18 fps?...


Probably not. Single frame usually gives extra exposure because the camera and its rotary disk shutter does not get fully up to speed yet. The running exposure might be 1/2 to 1 stop less than the single frame, or the first frame of a new scene.

Look at some film you have shot with a magnifying glass, over a light box. Take note if the first frame of each shot is a "hot frame" that is lighter then the following ones. That will give you an idea.
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#18 cool_splash1

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 03:44 PM

I'm currently contemplating to buy a another camera and would prefer a simple and compact one. Downside is that most amateur cameras and even the more expensive Bauers will read Ektachrome 64t as beeing K40 and some won't even let you adjust the aperture manually.
How about setting the camera to tungsten thereby swinging ot the 85 Filter (replace it with a 85b in front of the lens) and setting the camera to 40 ASA. Shouldn't that work for all cameras with TTL meters or am I missing something? Is a 85b all I need to get around this problem as long as use I daylight?

best

Stefan


Here is a list a found a while back

http://super8wiki.co..._in_old_cameras
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Rig Wheels Passport

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