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Elmo 1012 XLS problems


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#1 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 02:47 PM

My Elmo 1012 XLS has two significant problems.The trigger doesn't work.It runs fine when the master switch is on,but the trigger doesn't work.I've had some suggestions here of turning it over on it's side,which hasn't worked.I can live with this problem though as I can always use a remote control to shut it off.The Problem I'm having is with the iris readout in the viewfinder.I had one of my engineers at the TV station I work for open it up and he showed me where there was a damaged prism that was responsible for reflecting the f stop numbers up to the VF window.

My chances for finding an inexpensive fix for this don't look good,so I'm just looking for options here.The camera is functional and the auto iris seems to work fine.I can go manual but I have no way to tell what f stop I'm shooting.Now I thought about locking the auto itis on a grey card,but that would only work right with film stocks that auto keyed the light meter via cart nothches.Limits me pretty much to K 40 (no longer made) and E160(also defunct).Anyone have any other suggestions?
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#2 A.Oliver

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:47 PM

my opinion, use the camera as a bookend and look for a fully working model.
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#3 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 03:20 PM

my opinion, use the camera as a bookend and look for a fully working model.



In a perfect world I would agree with you.However when you're talking about no budget experimental projects,you don't have the budget to make that feasible.My Elmo is in great shpae except for this minor flaw.I did find someone on the filmshooting site that has offered to fix it no charge.It involves cannibalising another camera.Whatever works.
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#4 santo

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 03:06 PM

It's time to face reality. K25rip is right.

A damaged prism?

Okay, what is that going to take to fix in some super 8 camera from the late 70's?

It will require buying another Elmo 1012 xls that works. And if you're determined to make your original 1012 work by stripping that one and getting involved in some super complex surgery -- one that no japanaconsumer camera was ever intended for, then go ahead. Welcome to a nightmare!

So we're back to K25rip's excellent advice. This is not a matter of simply figuring out how to open one of these junky Japanazoom home movie cameras and trying to do a simple lubrication. That's a big enough horror show as these pieces of poorly engineered plastic were only designed for warranty nightmare fixing -- and then it was nearly certain the retailer would just send it to the manufacturer for a complete camera replacement -- but a replacement of the PRISM? Holy fu**, man, good luck!

Thank God I wised up and only spend money on super 8 Beaulieus and Leicinas these days. You can fix those darn things just like you can fix an arri or aaton or eclair or bolex. They're real cameras.
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#5 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 03:05 PM

It's time to face reality. K25rip is right.

A damaged prism?

Okay, what is that going to take to fix in some super 8 camera from the late 70's?

It will require buying another Elmo 1012 xls that works. And if you're determined to make your original 1012 work by stripping that one and getting involved in some super complex surgery -- one that no japanaconsumer camera was ever intended for, then go ahead. Welcome to a nightmare!


I wouldn't bother with it except for the fact that I have a friend who has offered to do just that.Cannibalise another Elmo (which he says he's doing from another model,but the eyepiece/VF assembly is identical)and fix the problem.I'll let you know how it worked out when I get it back.

In a perfect world,I would shoot with one of the cameras you mentioned,however this one came my way very cheaply.It IS useable in it's present state,I would just have to figure out where the Fstops are on the dial.I've made lesser cameras in other formats shoot great film with worse maladies.Ever heard of the Sony drop?
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#6 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 02:00 AM

That's a big enough horror show as these pieces of poorly engineered plastic were only designed for warranty nightmare fixing...


What does that mean?

Marty, what about the ideas I presented to you elsewhere?
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#7 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 12:00 PM

What does that mean?

Marty, what about the ideas I presented to you elsewhere?



I will be looking into those if my friend is not successful with his repairs.
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#8 A.Oliver

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:54 PM

Hi, i hope the viewfinder assembly is correctly aligned with the film gate after repair, otherwise your first test roll of film would be a waiste of cash. Cash that could be put to a another camera. I have messed with broken nizos in the past, all i ever acheived was waisting my time and filmstock. There are a lot of working inexpensive cameras out there.
Andy
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#9 santo

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 04:19 PM

What does that mean?


Gee, Alex, try opening your Canon 814 xls for a simple lube job or to repair/replace something some time.

It becomes immediately obvious that the only reason a repair manual was ever made was for warranty coverage -- and then only as a maybe. They were not made to be serviced like properly engineered cameras are. Especially motion picture cameras which, by their kinetic nature, require periodic servicing with all the moving parts. Simple lubrication of machinery, if nothing else. These cameras are designed as throw-away items. Even at the highest level. The only engineering consideration was easy mass assembly. Even the most technically advanced cars on the planet today have simple plugs and holes for oil changes and cooling system refills and whatnot. Computers are built for easy disassembly. On and on and on... Meanwhile, home miniDV camcorders follow the Japanese super 8 home movie camera philosophy and are not designed for repair. Warranty problem? A new one is shipped out from the factory as a replacement.
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#10 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 02:27 PM

Gee, Alex, try opening your Canon 814 xls for a simple lube job or to repair/replace something some time.

It becomes immediately obvious that the only reason a repair manual was ever made was for warranty coverage -- and then only as a maybe. They were not made to be serviced like properly engineered cameras are. Especially motion picture cameras which, by their kinetic nature, require periodic servicing with all the moving parts. Simple lubrication of machinery, if nothing else. These cameras are designed as throw-away items. Even at the highest level. The only engineering consideration was easy mass assembly. Even the most technically advanced cars on the planet today have simple plugs and holes for oil changes and cooling system refills and whatnot. Computers are built for easy disassembly. On and on and on... Meanwhile, home miniDV camcorders follow the Japanese super 8 home movie camera philosophy and are not designed for repair. Warranty problem? A new one is shipped out from the factory as a replacement.


I hear what you're saying,Santo and I'm not disagreeing with you.In a perfect world,a Leicina or Beaulieu would be the way to go.Just as in a perfect world,if shooting 16mm or S16,an Arri SR or Aaton XTR would be the way to go.If I was being hired to shoot a music video or piece of insert footage for a feature,I would rent a Beaulieu as I would be being paid enough for that.

Yet I have shot some darn good footage in my day with a very inexpensive Bolex,Canon Scoopic,Beaulieu R-16,Kodak Cine Special or K-100 or Pathe.I have also shot some really nice super 8 footage on a Canon 1014E.They served the projects I worked on well.

The bottom line on this Elmo thing is if I get a half a dozen decent shoots with it and good images,I will have gotten much more than my 35 bucks worth the camera cost me and the time and effort I put into making the minor repairs.Worse case scenario,it will end up in the display case I plan to build that will house all of the other defunct cameras I have collected over the years(most of which are fully functional) that serve as my home mini A/V museum.
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#11 santo

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:15 PM

So open up your Elmo and try and repair it. I'm pretty sure nobody on here or on the internet can tell you how to fix it -- rip it open and cannabalize it, anybody can do that. I've only opened up Canons and Sankyos, truth be told. Hopeless. Maybe the Elmos make more sense to try and fix because they are different? I don't know. Never opened one up. Even if it ends in disaster, a new one is only as far as ebay. Maybe you'll get another one that will give you six more shoots?

After my own frustrating battles, I'd go straight to ebay, and wouldn't think twice. Probably only have to spend a 100 or two to get a mint Elmo 1012 on its way to you tomorrow.
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#12 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 01:11 PM

So open up your Elmo and try and repair it. I'm pretty sure nobody on here or on the internet can tell you how to fix it -- rip it open and cannabalize it, anybody can do that. I've only opened up Canons and Sankyos, truth be told. Hopeless. Maybe the Elmos make more sense to try and fix because they are different? I don't know. Never opened one up. Even if it ends in disaster, a new one is only as far as ebay. Maybe you'll get another one that will give you six more shoots?

After my own frustrating battles, I'd go straight to ebay, and wouldn't think twice. Probably only have to spend a 100 or two to get a mint Elmo 1012 on its way to you tomorrow.



Well Santo,buddy,you were right.I would be happy to get six,maybe more shoots out of this thing if I could shoot manual iris and be able to tell what stop I'm shooting,but I decided to let me repair guy keep it for parts.The trouble was electronic.A bad resistor caused it to overheat and literally melted the optics that were responsible for the F stop readings.No worries here though,I have some good S8 cameras.Never used a Leicina,you say you recommend those and the top model Beaulieus because they can actually be repaired?
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#13 santo

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:06 PM

Based on wide experience on the internet and real life from people who actually shoot film and have no other agenda, any of those Beaulieus I list (2008, 3008, 4008, 5008, 6008, 7008, 9008) are worth investing in.
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#14 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:24 PM

Based on wide experience on the internet and real life from people who actually shoot film and have no other agenda, any of those Beaulieus I list (2008, 3008, 4008, 5008, 6008, 7008, 9008) are worth investing in.



My only experience with any 8mm format,besides a few school projects as a kid that got me interested in film in the first place was with the Canon 1014E.I shot two industrials and a commercial with it back in the early 80's.The images were excellent,given that it was super 8,not 16mm which was my primary format when I shot film.I continued to play with it for a few years until the plastic innerds gave up the ghost,but I did end up getting my money's worth out of it,especially when I sold it to Super 8 Sound sometime in the 90's.

A Beaulieu 2008 came through my hands some years back,but I wasn't too impressed with it.The lens was always loose and the speed was never consistent.I ended up trading it for a Bolex 500 series sound camera(this was back when they still made sound film)that I played with a bit until it too bellied up.

Needless to say,I haven't been impressed with super 8 cameras of late,but then again,I haven't invested much.I'm still intrigued with the format as it yeilds a very unique look for certain projects.

From a design basis,not personal experience,the single 8 ,DS8,Wilcam roll camera and Beaulieu 9008 seems to be able to deliver the best quality due to real pressure plates and not plastic mass produced cartridge pressure plates.But then I understand single 8 and DS8 are quite limited as to your choice of stocks,the Wilcam suffered limited manufacture and is almost non existent and the Beaulieu 9008 is prohibitively expensive.
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#15 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:03 AM

Gee, Alex, try opening your Canon 814 xls for a simple lube job or to repair/replace something some time.

It becomes immediately obvious that the only reason a repair manual was ever made was for warranty coverage -- and then only as a maybe.


I know how complicated the canon is to do a repair on, there are approximately 50-75 soldier points that have to be unsoldiered. I didn't understand your use of the word warranty coverage.

Here is your original quote..

This is not a matter of simply figuring out how to open one of these junky Japanazoom home movie cameras and trying to do a simple lubrication. That's a big enough horror show as these pieces of poorly engineered plastic were only designed for warranty nightmare fixing -- and then it was nearly certain the retailer would just send it to the manufacturer for a complete camera replacement --


I doubt the cameras would have been swapped out.

The Canon 814XLS and 1014XLS cameras were made to not fall apart easily, in other words the Canon camera was so well made as to NOT need servicing during the warranty coverage period.

That is why 25 years later many of these cameras still perform amazingly well. Your assessment that the camera is difficult to service AND is poorly made is incorrect, the camera is difficult to service but it was was also built like a tank.
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#16 Marty Hamrick

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 05:53 PM

The Canon 814XLS and 1014XLS cameras were made to not fall apart easily, in other words the Canon camera was so well made as to NOT need servicing during the warranty coverage period.

That is why 25 years later many of these cameras still perform amazingly well. Your assessment that the camera is difficult to service AND is poorly made is incorrect, the camera is difficult to service but it was was also built like a tank.



Never used the sound model,but I bought a Canon 1014E in 1979 and got 15 years of good use out of it.
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#17 Marc Guerriero

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:07 PM

Never used the sound model,but I bought a Canon 1014E in 1979 and got 15 years of good use out of it.

Great camera! Just because a camera is not designed with the "Anyone can service their own camera" mentality does not mean that it is of lesser Engineering quality and design, durability or quality of results in terms of image. Canon cameras have stood the test of time better than any other camera considering the low frequency of service required to keep them running. And there are businesses that will service them and do an admirable job that is not so insurmountable as some "elitist" on this forum would like people to believe. Beaulieus may be designed for easy access but that access might be required every two days considering how "finicky" they are!

Edited by Marc Guerriero, 09 April 2008 - 08:10 PM.

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#18 david savetsky

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:09 PM

Marty I've got 63 ROLLS OF ELA594 SOUND FILM frozen since 1996 (last batch made by KODAK IN 1996 AND TESTED BY BAUMGARTEN AT PPS WITH NEAR PERFECT RESULTS .Make me a reasonable offer and i'll throw in a perfectly working elmo 1012xls repaired by du-all in NYC .Processing wil lrun you about $30 a roll
regards,
dave in new jersey
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