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Still filters on cine cameras


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#1 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 04:14 AM

Can you use filters designed for still cameras on a movie camera (both 35mm) also what are cookies with reguards to lenses? I'm familar with lighting cooies but not sur what the term means when reffering to lenses. One other question, what is the standardized meaning of the variuos colors of tape on mags?

Edited by Capt.Video, 25 January 2006 - 04:22 AM.

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#2 Mike Panczenko

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 08:05 AM

I'm not sure what a lens cookie is...

As for whether you could use 35mm still lenses for motion picture use, my thought is that it would depend on where the product ends up. If you were going to a print, I would question the optical clarity of still filters, but if you were going to be living on tape for tv release, I would assume it would be okay. (I am curious, though, about other peoples' thoughts on this...)

The tape on the mags is to identify the stock. On shows where you are shooting more than one emulsion, the tape is used to identify which stock is in which mag. Normally red is for the high speed emulsion, blue for daylight, and white for the normal speed tungsten stock, or when there is only one stock being shot. On the tape you also put the information about that particular roll- the emulsion number, the title, date, loader, roll number, loaded footage, and exposed footage.
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#3 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 09:17 AM

The glass on high quality still filters suh as those made by Tiffen, Schneider, and Harrison&Harrison is the same as that which they use for flat filters used for film use.
One needs to be aware of eventual vignetting when they are used on shorter focal length lenses.
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 11:55 AM

If they fit on your movie camera, sure, you can use glass still camera filters -- sometimes they are the same filters by the same manufacturer just cut differently. Trouble is that often they are too small for a movie camera lens.

Don't know what a lens cookie is either. There are "donuts" for lenses -- a foam ring that fits around the front to prevent light from leaking onto the back of the filter in the mattebox.
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#5 Sam Wells

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 12:21 PM

Well considering Schneider bought B&W B)

-Sam
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#6 Mike Lary

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 01:20 PM

Can you use filters designed for still cameras on a movie camera (both 35mm) also what are cookies with reguards to lenses? I'm familar with lighting cooies but not sur what the term means when reffering to lenses. One other question, what is the standardized meaning of the variuos colors of tape on mags?

Maybe you're talking about the different plates that used to come with matte boxes to block some of the light coming into the camera and create a matte shape (like a keyhole, et.)? Bolex used to sell some like that with its titling kit, but I can't see a use for them now that a non-destructive matte can be applied to the full frame image in post.
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#7 Mitch Gross

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 03:36 PM

Most cine lenses are not threaded to accept screw-on filters if that's what you're asking. To mount these filters, one has to a set-screw lens ring (Tiffen calls them SSLR adapters) that will clamp onto the front of the lens and then accept a round filter.
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#8 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 04:45 PM

I have a possible job coming up as a second unit camera w/ my konvas 1m MOS camera. I've noticed most stock from Kodak have a filter correction from tungsten to daylight and most say a #85 of some sort. I wouldn't try to jury rig it but time is short and I've spent a wad of cash already this year so I have to make a few ducets before I can invest in more equipment. It may turn out something breaks loose and I can get the proper stuff before the shoot but I don't want to HOPE I'll have what I need when it comes time to head for the set. Bottom line is I don't have the cash or time to wait for a mattebox to arrive from mother Russia so work with what you have or can get, Right. What I have are Cokin 2 1/2in square set of filters w/ the mattebox for a still 35mm camera and adapters for screw in filtes that can slip into the slots. I would still have to buy a set of #85s, but they're cheap for still cameras. My camera is the turret type. The filters cover the lenses well. so my plan was to fabricate an adjustable support for the mattebox and use a french flag and/or black wrap OR fabricate sheetmetal bellows to compensate for the Cokin mattebox's shortness and lack of light control. Barring this, tape the screw in filters I have to the lens w/ a still lense hood (not what I want to do unless I have to).

Edited by Capt.Video, 25 January 2006 - 04:49 PM.

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#9 Paul Bruening

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 02:08 PM

Hey Capt. my Capt.,

I've taped filters to the lens. It looks goofy but works fine. Eventually, the edge of the lens may scar the glass. That's just a matter of gentle handling. None of the cine lenses I own have threads for still filters. Hoya makes multi-coated filters. I got them due to my tendency to stack filters. I have moved to Nikkors for my 2-perf, Fries 35R3. I bought 72mm filters and use step-up rings to fit them to the other lenses. This helps on the vignetting.

Good luck with your shoot,
Paul
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#10 Ian Marks

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 02:21 PM

Don't know what a lens cookie is either. There are "donuts" for lenses -- a foam ring that fits around the front to prevent light from leaking onto the back of the filter in the mattebox.


Of course for Angenieux lenses, there are croissants. Not sure what you'd use on a Lomo. . .
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#11 Paul Bruening

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 02:24 AM

... a nice slice of black rye bread. I know mayo isn't Russian but I use it all the same. However, the lens gets all mucky.
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#12 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 04:36 AM

I'm fabrication a set of support rods for my mattebox now and may frbrcate a sheet metal lens hood (Bellows) to attach to the existing plastic Cokin hood for better light control. It is good to know I can tape my screw in type filters to the lenses,. I am a bit concerned though, I just didn't want a dp or the 2nd unit director to look at me like I fell off the turnip truck. Is ther any established ediquete in this area, i.e. jury rigged equpment?
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#13 Mitch Gross

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 12:05 PM

The big problem with taping filters, even if you can get out all the flaring and light leak issues, is that is not a fast operation. How do you think the 1st unit DP will look at you as he waits while you tape on the next filter? Time is money.
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#14 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 11:11 PM

The big problem with taping filters, even if you can get out all the flaring and light leak issues, is that is not a fast operation. How do you think the 1st unit DP will look at you as he waits while you tape on the next filter? Time is money.

Good point.
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#15 Paul Bruening

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:42 PM

Oh, Capt. my Capt.,

Don't let them talk you out of fabricating gear. I build lots of my own stuff. It does the trick at a fraction of the cost.
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#16 Charles Haine

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 12:54 AM

taping on filters takes a long time?

I've taped on quite a few 4x4 filters to S4's in my time, and it takes less than a minute, certainly only slightly longer than swapping out filter trays.

You take three peices of tape, and put them half-on/half-off, length-wise, on the top and two sides of the front of the lens barrel, and fold back the flaps hanging off so they are in line with the lens plane. then you push the filter on. Works like a charm.

Since an ASC member taught it to my buddy who taught it to me, we always call this the ASC way, but that is, of course, a joke.

Usually, with strong 1' gaff-tape, this will work to hold 1 or 2 4x4 filters on for several hours, shorter if it's really cold. Lightweight round still filters out to easily be held on in this fashion.

Like most things, if you do it with confidence, nobody will mock you. It's only when you act embarassed that people pick on you, in my experience.

good luck

chuck haine
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#17 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 01:18 AM

You better have a good reason on a professional set OTHER than being too cheap to get a mattebox though.

I had to tape filters on the camera in Russia for an HD shoot because the producers got me the wrong size mattebox for the filter package. Trouble was, it was so cold in Russia in December that only heavy duct tape would stick to the barrel, and then it was a pain to get it off, plus I had a cheesy sunshade made of black wrap taped over the filter taped on the barrel, so pulling off the filter was a pain. It was inefficient.

In other words, get a mattebox and leave taping filters to lenses for emergency situations and the odd shot where you can't use the mattebox, etc. Every shoot at some point has to solve a problem by taping the filter to the lens, so no one has a problem doing that if that's the best solution, but no one is going to work on a feature for three or four weeks without a mattebox and tape filters to the camera instead every day and not feel ridiculous.
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