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will i have enough light?


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#1 Moshe Mishali

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 05:52 AM

I will be a gaffer on a stills catalog production we will be shooting on 100 iso in no less then 1/30 shutter and the iris we want to shoot with is between 11 to 16.
We will use daylight film with HMI pars.
The set is a kitchen.
I will have two 4k's, one 2.5k and maybe a 1200/575k.
I am a bit worried cause I never worked with 4K on film (only with video) and I don't know if that's enough light to get a decent picture.
I'm thinking about getting one 6K instead of one 4K.
Can anyone advise me on that issue?

thanks
mosh
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#2 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 06:16 AM

enough to get a decent picture for sure, but not enough to get f/16 which would mean just a stop under full daylight if i remember the sunny 16 rule correctly. it depends on how you plan on using it though. it's probably possible.

/matt
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#3 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 09:49 AM

Yeah, if you use it directly and quite hard you might get there, but not as a soft, bounced source.
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 10:09 AM

enough to get a decent picture for sure, but not enough to get f/16 which would mean just a stop under full daylight if i remember the sunny 16 rule correctly. it depends on how you plan on using it though. it's probably possible.

/matt


Hi,

The Sunny F16 rule assumes that the shutter speed is the same as the ASA rating on the film. So your right its about a stop below full sunshine!

Stephen
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#5 Mitch Gross

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 10:19 AM

This is a very large requirement for light. At an F 16 on 100 ISO stock and an assumed shutter speed around 1/48th (the chart I have handy is for cine use), you need 3250 footcandles to get proper exposure. This is the reason that many stills shooters use photo strobes to get the appropriate brightness for their shots. You might consider going this way, or instead visit the manufacturer's websites for the various light fixtures you are considering using to check out the photometrics of the units. I don't know if a 6K will give you the punch without a semi-spot lens in place, which may be too harsh. And your interior fill light will need to be quite considerable. Don't know how much you'll ever see with that 575.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 12:31 PM

It would make more sense to use Vision-2 250D stock in this case.
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#7 Robert Edge

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:28 PM

If I understand this thread correctly (and maybe I don't, although Mitch Gross appears to have understood it the same way I do), it is about a stills shoot.

I don't understand how it is possible to answer the question without knowing how large an area the photographer wants to light and what quality of light he wants. Is this a studio kitchen? A real kitchen? A ranch kitchen or a galley kitchen? Do you have to light the whole kitchen or only part of it? Is there natural light coming through a window? How bright and reflective are the walls and surfaces? Is the light supposed to be hard or soft?

I assume that if the photographer wants to shoot at 1/30 second or faster, either the subjects are people or he wants to shoot handheld with lenses of 35mm or wider. Otherwise, the requirement that shutter speeds be 1/30 second or shorter would seem to be arbitrary.

As David Mullen points out, a faster film stock is also an option. For catalogue reproduction, it isn't obvious that there is going to be a noticeable difference between ISO 100 and film a stop or so faster.

But as I said, maybe I don't understand the question.
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 06:40 PM

Oh, I didn't get that it was a still camera shoot. If so, then all you need to do is use a tripod and longer exposure times if you want to stop down.
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#9 Brian Wells

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 06:58 PM

I will be a gaffer on a stills catalog production we will be shooting on 100 iso in no less then 1/30 shutter and the iris we want to shoot with is between 11 to 16.

I realize you are gaffer on this shoot, but I can't help wonder "Why" the photographer chose that specific recipe! It sounds like a lot of work.
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#10 Moshe Mishali

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 08:51 AM

it is a studio kitchen that i haven't seen yet, the light suposed to be hard with strong shadows in some parts and in other a soft ambianced light
i think the reason for that choice is because he dosen't know a lot about the par HMI lights, tommarow we will see the studio together so i'll know what's it about and maybe run a few tests.
i will advise him on all those matters ofcorse.

thanks a lot
i will write again when i'll have more details.
mosh
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#11 Cole Webley

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 01:22 AM

I am glad that this thread was started.

I also have am wondering if I am going to have enough light...I am shooting a exterior night scene this weekend on S16 most likely a 500 ISO--I have already decided that I will most likely rate it at 800 ISO and push it a stop in processing. Hopefully by keeping my lighting highly contrasted I can keep the grains as inconspicuous as possible. I will have access to (4) 1200W HMI's and (2) 575's...I also have some 4ft 4Bank Kino's for fill but I am worried that they won't give enough light for fill. I wouldn't mind my fill being a couple stops under but I am nervous I won't have enough light.

I am shooting everything at 24 FPS and at 180 degree shutter angle, so I won't have to make up for lost exposure time.

I plan on keeping my sources soft--maybe punching them through some 12X Silks...

My lens package opens up to a T2.1 I believe...Does anyone anticipate any problems with my way of thinking and/or do you think I will have enough light?

I apologize that my only correspondence on the forum is that of questions but I appreciate the experienced DP's patience and advice.
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#12 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 09:16 AM

It all depends on how wide your shots are. Wide = more lights. But just to give you an example - I just did a short on Kodaks B/W 7222 200ASA stock at night. I hade very wide shots in a big parking lot and one in an alleway. I got by with 1 4K, 1 2.5K, 1 1.2K and a 575w HMI and some smaller stuff for fill. I was shooting wide open at T1.3 on almost every shot. So with 500ASA film and T2.1 you could get away with it without pushing (pushing costs money, I'd rather spend it on a bigger light if I were you) if you plan your lighting carefully.
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#13 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 01:37 PM

I might add that soft lights = more lights, too. It's hard to do big soft sources, especially on wides, without breaking even a generous commercials budget.
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#14 Robert Edge

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 02:19 PM

It's hard to do big soft sources, especially on wides, without breaking even a generous commercials budget.


You're a master of understatement.

Last summer, while walking in New York after dark, I stumbled on some people making a commercial in front of the National Arts Club. They were shooting a sequence in which attractive women in evening dress were exiting the club and getting into a waiting car, which I suspect was the product. The filmmakers were running light through a diffusion panel that must have been 30' high.

I had a digital camera and took a couple of snapshots of the crane, lights and other gear that they were using. If I can find the photos, I'll post one of them.
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