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Lighting in a bus at night


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#1 stoop

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 11:04 AM

I shoot I have planned which involves someone sitting on a bus at night - pretty simple.

However bus lighting is fluroscent, and the lights outside will be tungsten. I was thinking of using a kino miniflo for some fill. But what about film stocks, gels ect for the varying colour temps??

Many Thanks
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 11:48 AM

I shoot I have planned which involves someone sitting on a bus at night - pretty simple.

However bus lighting is fluroscent, and the lights outside will be tungsten. I was thinking of using a kino miniflo for some fill. But what about film stocks, gels ect for the varying colour temps??

Many Thanks


Sort of depends on the look you want. Mixed colors at night can look nice. I'd probably use a 500T stock like Kodak '18 or Fuji Eterna and correct out some of the overhead flo's hue in post timing if it's too cyan for you (assuming they are Cool White). Or I guess you could try and gel all of the buses overheads... or swap out the tubes.
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#3 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:05 PM

I shoot I have planned which involves someone sitting on a bus at night - pretty simple.

However bus lighting is fluroscent, and the lights outside will be tungsten. I was thinking of using a kino miniflo for some fill. But what about film stocks, gels ect for the varying colour temps??

Many Thanks


You could add + green gel to your tungsten & kinoflo lights (use the tungsten tubes) and put a magenta CC filter on the camera. You'll need a colour temperature meter to work out the strength of the + green & CC filters required. You may also need either 1/4 or 1/2 CTB on the film lights to match the colour temperature. You can get specialised correction filters if you know the type of fluorescent fitted in the bus. US tubes are different to tubes in other parts of the world.

An alternative is to put filters on the bus fluorescent lights to match the tungsten, but I think you'll lose a lot of light.

I'd shoot with tungsten stock (how fast will depend on how bright your bus is - remembering the transmission factor of the CC filter) and then grade out the effect of the 1/4 or 1/2 CTB when printing - you'll be losing light using the CC filter.
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#4 stoop

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:49 PM

Thanks guys.

I was going to shoot 7218 anyway.

Unfortunately we dont have the budget to change bulbs etc, and i dont have a colour temp meter. However I think I will gel the kino's.

Thanks guys
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#5 Kim Sargenius

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 06:41 PM

Thanks guys.

I was going to shoot 7218 anyway.

Unfortunately we dont have the budget to change bulbs etc, and i dont have a colour temp meter. However I think I will gel the kino's.

Thanks guys



Hi James,


Are you finishing to tape or print?

I've done a similar scene in a bus, shooting Fuji Reala 500D, which handles mixed colour temps *beautifully*. Compared to 7218 it looks like a grain storm though so might not work for you. Personally I liked the texture, and this being a tape finish, a bit of noise reduction helped a fair bit.

As for lighting I used a couple of cheap 15" 12V camping fluoros which turned out to be very close to the colour temp of the bus's existing fluoros.


HTH


cheers,

Kim Sargenius
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#6 stoop

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:22 PM

Thanks for the response

I will be finishing On Digi-Beta and then to DVD.

I dont think the extra grain will be a good choice for me however.

Interesting idea with the fluro's. I use these lamps (smaller versions) for alot of still work - usually long exposures. Do they really give out that much light. What f stop's were you getting?? Am I likely to get a much better result wth a kini miniflo?

Have you got any screen grabs u could mail me??

Thanks
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#7 Kim Sargenius

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:33 PM

Interesting idea with the fluro's. I use these lamps (smaller versions) for alot of still work - usually long exposures. Do they really give out that much light. What f stop's were you getting?? Am I likely to get a much better result wth a kini miniflo?

Have you got any screen grabs u could mail me??

Thanks



James,


Plenty of light w/ these as I can remember. I think they were 2x9W tubes in a batten and I used to of them (battens that is). I was shooting at about T2.0 I think and from about 4ft away I still had some useful fill out of them.

I have also used them for dashboard-lighting night shots in cars.

Of course you'd be better off using mini-flo's but you'd still have to gel them to match the rest of the bus and I bought these two fluoro battens for about $30 AUD each.



HTH,

Kim Sargenius
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#8 David S.

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 02:00 PM

There's more than a number of ways to tackle this. Considering that you are shooting tape, here is the way I would do it and have done it in the past. I always keep things as simple as possible and it always looks best. Simply use your kino fixtures and replace the bulbs with either warm or cool white bulbs that match closest to the bulbs in the bus. Then simply white balance away to your desired effect and let the back ground lights fall where they may. Simple clean and effective.
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#9 Michael Collier

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:13 PM

Then simply white balance away to your desired effect and let the back ground lights fall where they may. Simple clean and effective.


Whitebalance is overused. Its not a magic color filter, it works by turning gain up on certain channels. Always correct light with glass filters, then whiteballance. but either way, I think he is posting in Digibeta, I think he said he was shooting on kodak 7218.

In general I dont tend to mix lighting unless you want a different color of light (it has to be for a specific reason, not just to make things easier.)

Have you looked at gell tubes? There are nifty sleaves that fit over the bulbs and pull the greenspike out.

At night I like to shoot on daylight film with 5600k lighting. That way any incandescent lights outside look really orange, and any sodium-vapor lights look crazy orange (most of the time they are blown out and hallating)
It also keeps the occasional murcury discharge from looking blue. of course this all depends on the tone you want for outside, I do shoot outside blue sometimes, but in general I tend to follow warmer colors unless the story calls for cool colors. I grew up in the city so city night to me is that sodium-vapor opressive orange. It can look dark and sinister as well. Check out requium for a dream, under the bridge scene.

always keep things as simple as possible and it always looks best//Then simply white balance away to your desired effect and let the back ground lights fall where they may. Simple clean and effective.


First there is lazy, then appethetic. let background fall where it may? The background is the charecters world. Its important how that is rendered and if taking the lazy road doesnt work to accomplish that goal. Simple clean effective? Lazy, lazy lazy is all I hear. I wonder if I were to see one of your movies, could I ever pull meaning out of the cinematography, or would it all be a product of the quickest acceptable solution?

Edited by Michael Collier, 06 February 2006 - 03:17 PM.

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#10 David S.

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:50 AM

Why do you say white balance is overused? If it works and no ill effects can be seen who cares if it turns up the gain on certain channels.

About being lazy, consider his situation: He's under budget constraints. Simply asking for cool white tubes instead of daylights won't cost anymore. It will also save time and money trying to experiment and find the "right" gel cocktail to correct for the dog's breakfast of color temperatures out the window in the BG. I would think there are too many to deal with and trying to make a compromise between them all will only sacrifice the lighting for the main character on the bus.
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