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Sony PDW-F350 XDCAM HD


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#1 Andrew Alward

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 12:59 PM

I have been seeing this system advertised in the ASC magazine, and it looks very exciting. I was was wondering what you guys think of this camera, and if you think it's going to be worth $20K?

http://bssc.sel.sony...d_cameras.shtml
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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 01:29 PM

It looks interesting, those productions that have been shooting on DVCAM with DRS 570s etc will be very interested. I believe that there's a 2/3" CCD version coming out as well.

There have been quite a few low budget features that have been shooting on 2/3" CCD cameras using DVCAM and XDCAM HD should meet their needs.
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 03:23 PM

I have been seeing this system advertised in the ASC magazine, and it looks very exciting. I was was wondering what you guys think of this camera, and if you think it's going to be worth $20K?

http://bssc.sel.sony...d_cameras.shtml


Hi,

My only comment is the compression seems very high. For that money I would want a better data rate. Thompson will soon launch the Infinity range 2/3" chip for about 20000 euros, so dont rush with your purchase.

Stephen
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 06:57 PM

Hi,

My only comment is the compression seems very high. For that money I would want a better data rate. Thompson will soon launch the Infinity range 2/3" chip for about 20000 euros, so dont rush with your purchase.

Stephen


Trouble is that the Infinity camera doesn't shoot 24P/25P/30P -- only 50i, 60i, 50P, and 60P I believe.
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#5 Jonathan Bryant

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:13 PM

Trouble is that the Infinity camera doesn't shoot 24P/25P/30P -- only 50i, 60i, 50P, and 60P I believe.

Yeah the infinity seems like it could be an awesome camera for the money (2/3inch chips ,1080,720p, all using the JPEG200 codec,or MPEG 2) But it is really crippled without 24p. Its can record upto 75mbps using the jpeg2000 codec which is supposed ot be an awesome codec (it doesn't tend to have mosaic patterns as much as mpeg2) They talk like later they can upgrade the software in the camera as drives get bigger and faster to include higher bit rates. SO I would assume they could add 24p unless they are trying to protect their high end Viper(Kewl name by the way). I think the key to the Infinity camera is its use of consumer media flash drives and Iomega Rev drives. The Codecs are where the quality comes into play and since businesses and ordinary comsumers will be buying flash drives and Rev drives it will drive the cost down of the media IMHO for professionals using the Infinity. Something that will not happen for XDCAM or P2 I am affraid.

If people could convince them to add 24p I think they would have a high demand for the camera. Just imagine not have to buy expensive P2 cards or HDCAM decks.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:54 PM

Well, remember that 24P is really a niche of the bigger broadcast camera market -- I don't think the Infinity is really targeted towards independent narrative production, but to regular broadcast applications (news, sports, nature, etc.) that need to be in HD, either 60P/720 or 60i/1080 in the US market.
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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:58 PM

Unfortunately, Thomson don't have the marketing power of Sony. The XDCAM disks with a writing speed of up to 144 Mb/s have a lot of potential for formats with higher data rates. However, I suspect Sony are holding off at the moment to avoid causing problems with the HDCAM sector of the market.
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#8 Matthew Parnell

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:28 PM

XDCAM, like BetaSX seems to be more of a highly compressed ENG format than anything else. It appears to be a very similar situation with the P2 gear thats out now, where the limitations and advantages of the gear is best suited to ENG work.

I honestly think XDCAM HD will only compete with HDCAM, in the same way that BetaSX competes with DigiBeta. Theyre different formats for different uses and ultimately will work side by side rather than in competion.
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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:44 AM

Trouble is that the Infinity camera doesn't shoot 24P/25P/30P -- only 50i, 60i, 50P, and 60P I believe.


David,

For the launch that is correct, by the end of the year Infinity should support frames.

Stephen
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#10 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 05:38 AM

XDCAM, like BetaSX seems to be more of a highly compressed ENG format than anything else. It appears to be a very similar situation with the P2 gear thats out now, where the limitations and advantages of the gear is best suited to ENG work.

I honestly think XDCAM HD will only compete with HDCAM, in the same way that BetaSX competes with DigiBeta. Theyre different formats for different uses and ultimately will work side by side rather than in competion.


The XDCAM disk is a recording medium, in theory you could record DVPRO HD onto it. The data rate for HDCAM is 140 Mb/s, so you could record also HDCAM onto an XDCAM disk if required. Of course, the recording time wouldn't be that long - around 15 minutes I'd guess. However, you can see how Sony could develop a range of formats based on it rather like how the old Betamax cassette has ended up with HDCAM.
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#11 Tom Bays

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 09:48 AM

I read that you lose half your resolution in variable frame rates...so you would only get 540?
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#12 Craig Chartier

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:06 AM

the HDXDCAM that will be seen this year is 1//2 chip set. 2/3 will not be seen until 07. Only two lenses on the offering block so far.canon may be incorporating the steadishot functon from XL H1 lens into the unit. Main reason for the push is that CBS wanted a camera now. BIG ORDER, so we got the cheaper 1/2 chip camera. same 24P ish ness that f900 has, they say. but heavier compression. reasonably price media. 1,000 rewrites.
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#13 Mike Brennan

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 10:42 PM

so we got the cheaper 1/2 chip camera. same 24P ish ness that f900 has, they say. but heavier compression. reasonably price media. 1,000 rewrites.


The f350 camera is not true progressive camcorder.
The ccd is interlace.
There is loss of resolution in P mode.
There is time lag in viewfinder in P mode.
Just like the x300.
It records MPEG-2 Long GOP coding at a selectable bit-rate of 35, 25 or 18 Mbps.

Interestingly it has fewer moving parts than a HDV camcorder but is many times the price.



Mike Brennan
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#14 Tim J Durham

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 01:03 PM

the HDXDCAM that will be seen this year is 1//2 chip set. 2/3 will not be seen until 07. Only two lenses on the offering block so far.canon may be incorporating the steadishot functon from XL H1 lens into the unit. Main reason for the push is that CBS wanted a camera now. BIG ORDER, so we got the cheaper 1/2 chip camera. same 24P ish ness that f900 has, they say. but heavier compression. reasonably price media. 1,000 rewrites.


Hi Craig,

Have you gotten a look through any of the available 1/2" HD lenses? I can't imagine Fuji or Canon investing a lot of effort into these lenses and I will be shooting with this camera a lot in the near future. Are either of the lenses you know about wide angle? The only lens I know about is a 19x9 that is made by/for Sony. That will be
conspicuously NOT wide...

This is what most people are going to be dealing with for the near term:

http://www.bhphotovi...arch&Q=&ci=1885

A large selection of semi-pro SD lenses to get anything resembling wide angle.
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#15 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 04:39 PM

Hi,

I have the Fuji 20x6.4, although it's really more like a 14x6.4 if you want to keep out of what we call The Mush Zone. 6.4 is... on the wider side of not-wide. I'm not aware you'll do much better for less than insanity money.

But that is far from an HD lens anyway.

Phil
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#16 Craig Chartier

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:04 AM

The only lens I got a look at was a not yet in production prototype. it was even clean of any model number. standard eng style lens. There will probably be a wide adapter made, but no mention of any other glass out there that I know of. all of these 1/2 lenses are powered by pins located in the mount. the body also has a power port on the side for standard B4 2/3 lens, and you can use an adapter for 2/3 lens.
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#17 Mike Brennan

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 03:57 AM

The only lens I got a look at was a not yet in production prototype. it was even clean of any model number. standard eng style lens. There will probably be a wide adapter made, but no mention of any other glass out there that I know of. all of these 1/2 lenses are powered by pins located in the mount. the body also has a power port on the side for standard B4 2/3 lens, and you can use an adapter for 2/3 lens.



Canon and Fuji will lower cost of HD lenses for 1/2 and 2/3 inch by offering versions without the doubler.


Mike Brennan
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#18 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 06:26 PM

Fujnon have this one for 1/2" CCD HD:

http://www.fujinonbr...ducts.cgi?p=336
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#19 Tim J Durham

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 07:23 PM

Fujnon have this one for 1/2" CCD HD:

http://www.fujinonbr...ducts.cgi?p=336


Yeah, 5.5mm is fairly wide with 2/3" chips. On 1/2" chips? Not too wide. If Sony suggests one of those crappy adapters as an HD solution for wide angle...

Does anyone know if either of the P&S adapters will work with 1/2 chip cameras?
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#20 Tjerker

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 05:16 PM

Does anyone know if the HD SDI output is uncompressed HD while shooting? I'd like to capture uncompressed HD straight to disk via HD SDI. (HD out --> powermac G5 --> decklink HD card, FCP 10 bits uncompressed capture)
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