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Vision 2 50D in Super-8: the evidence?


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#1 nathan coombs

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 02:06 PM

I have been banging on about this for a while, but what we really need is some stills from a high quality s8 telecine of this stock (I have heard that some custom orders have been made).

Or else a HD scan of 16mm cropped down to a s8 frame size would be informative.

I am just very interested to know if this stock really would be the next big thing for improved resolution in s8.

Even something that would benefit from a 480p scan would be big leap forward.
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#2 santo

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 03:00 PM

It seems pointless to post anything on super 8 boards with regards to the latest developments, as at least 50% of what you seem to get is resistance and denial and backlash from wackos. Flakes who really don't shoot much if any film, are not involved in film either on an amateur artistic film festival level or on an industry level, and are living in 1985 with regards to their super 8 knowledge and attitude. They plug their ears and hum to themselves "Nothing's going to change my world... nothing's going to change my world...", and when they are proven wrong a dozen times over, they simply forget the mountain of evidence and deductive factual reasoning that has overwhelmed them in the past. A few others are a tiny handful of professionals who also share the same mindset as the whackos and it has never occured to them that super 8 has emerged as a terrific short film making tool thanks to recent advances in the past 2 years. They think it's only for "bad film" and are oblivious to the multiple high profile and smaller film festivals it is now appearing in (some in a town near them). (edit) And let's not forget the businessmen (some in disguise, some not) who frequent super 8 boards and new tech developments are definitely not in their best interests and they speak out against negative stocks and higher end transfers whenever possible.

I have V2 50d and V2 100t super 8 uncompressed 10 bit SDI 270 Mb/sec standard def transfers (and v2 200t in high def for a short) and will be shooting some more soon to test out some new lenses/camera. But I will not be posting anything on the internet in the forseeable future.

I would highly recommend you buy a couple of carts from Pro 8 -- like them or not -- and get them developed by them as well. Then send it out for a direct to hard drive transfer elsewhere. It will cost you a few hundred bucks but, in the end, you will know what the rest of us know. It is amazing and, like the head of Kodak motion pictures noted as a no-brainer: "what 16mm used to be".
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#3 nathan coombs

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 04:59 PM

I have V2 50d and V2 100t super 8 uncompressed 10 bit SDI 270 Mb/sec standard def transfers (and v2 200t in high def for a short) and will be shooting some more soon to test out some new lenses/camera. But I will not be posting anything on the internet in the forseeable future.


Unhelpful. Next?
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#4 S8 Booster

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 05:07 PM

this is where to go for you - from filmshooting.com :
http://www.filmshoot...=11719&start=75

They outsource the transfer to AVP in Munich. The best transfer house for Super8. It´s just a package deal including the shipping et al. Nothing bad or expensive with that. But if you happen to live in Munich you can supervise the timing.


s8ôôt
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#5 nathan coombs

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 05:11 PM

this is where to go for you - from filmshooting.com :
http://www.filmshoot...=11719&start=75
s8ôôt


What on earth does this have to do with the topic of this thread?
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#6 S8 Booster

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 05:14 PM

best transfer in business you wanted for this purpose? shoot a sample.

http://www.avp-vt.de/

s8hôôt
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#7 Super8Guy

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 05:40 PM

Hello

I shoot Super 8 film on music videos and TV spots.
I shoot with a Canon 1014XL-S
I shoot Super 8 Color Negative Film

I buy film stock from Kodak in Hollywood.
I also buy film stock from
http://SpectraFilmAndVideo.com/

I recommend
http://SpectraFilmAndVideo.com/
for Telecine

This guy also know about Telecine

MovieStuff
Roger Evans
Film to video transfers
3120 White Oak Drive | Houston, Texas 77007
1-866-835-2463 | 1-8MM-TEL-CINE | 713-426-6662
eMail: moviestuff@sbcglobal.net |
Roger Evans: http://MovieStuff.tv/ |
MovieStuff: http://MovieStuff.tv/roger.html |

Thanks

JOHN LONGENECKER
http://Super8Guy.com/

http://Super8Guy.com...anon1014-08.jpg
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 06:43 PM

It seems pointless to post anything on super 8 boards with regards to the latest developments, as at least 50% of what you seem to get is resistance and denial and backlash from wackos. Flakes who really don't shoot much if any film, are not involved in film either on an amateur artistic film festival level or on an industry level, and are living in 1985 with regards to their super 8 knowledge and attitude. They plug their ears and hum to themselves "Nothing's going to change my world... nothing's going to change my world...", and when they are proven wrong a dozen times over, they simply forget the mountain of evidence and deductive factual reasoning that has overwhelmed them in the past. A few others are a tiny handful of professionals who also share the same mindset as the whackos and it has never occured to them that super 8 has emerged as a terrific short film making tool thanks to recent advances in the past 2 years. They think it's only for "bad film" and are oblivious to the multiple high profile and smaller film festivals it is now appearing in (some in a town near them). (edit) And let's not forget the businessmen (some in disguise, some not) who frequent super 8 boards and new tech developments are definitely not in their best interests and they speak out against negative stocks and higher end transfers whenever possible.

I have V2 50d and V2 100t super 8 uncompressed 10 bit SDI 270 Mb/sec standard def transfers (and v2 200t in high def for a short) and will be shooting some more soon to test out some new lenses/camera. But I will not be posting anything on the internet in the forseeable future.

I would highly recommend you buy a couple of carts from Pro 8 -- like them or not -- and get them developed by them as well. Then send it out for a direct to hard drive transfer elsewhere. It will cost you a few hundred bucks but, in the end, you will know what the rest of us know. It is amazing and, like the head of Kodak motion pictures noted as a no-brainer: "what 16mm used to be".



The problem is you seem to backwards engineer your "tests". You try and be helpful (I think???) by making comparisons, but they tend to have too many variables to be conclusive. You show two film clips to illustrate grain versus digital artifacting yet it was obvious to me that one film clip was enlarged twice as much as the other one.

Comparitive Testing is a pain for me because once I start to do such a test all the variables hit me like a ton of bricks. Even the very helpful tests in Super-8 Today were slightly flawed because the lens magnification was not the same for the three side by side film frames. If your goal is to do a test, then do the test and share, but if you try and show comparison's from actual film shoot conditions, usually there are too many variables to overcome.
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#9 Super8Guy

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:11 PM

Hello

As I see it, shoot it. Transfer it to video.
Include the shots in your project.
move on to your next project.

A Super 8 film camera is similar to a 16mm film camera,
and a 35mm film camera and a video camcorder.

Cameras are tools to shoot movies.
Each has their place.

If you get an exposure on Super 8 color negative film
you can transfer it to video and use it.

It's really pretty simple.

JOHN LONGENECKER
http://Super8Guy.com

Hello

As I see it, shoot it. Transfer it to video.
Include the shots in your project.
move on to your next project.

A Super 8 film camera is similar to a 16mm film camera,
and a 35mm film camera and a video camcorder.

Cameras are tools to shoot movies.
Each has their place.

If you get an exposure on Super 8 color negative film
you can transfer it to video and use it.

It's really pretty simple.

JOHN LONGENECKER
http://Super8Guy.com
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#10 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:44 PM

Hello

As I see it, shoot it. Transfer it to video.
Include the shots in your project.
move on to your next project.

It's really pretty simple.

JOHN LONGENECKER
http://Super8Guy.com


What you are saying makes perfect sense when one is also shooting other formats and mixing them all together. The Super-8 results will be different enough from other formats and usually will be welcomed.

The problem is when one is counting on a particular super-8 stock to deliver a completely finished project. Right now, if I am able to proceed on a Super-8 project for distribution, I would choose Plus-X and some Tri-X versus any color stock that Kodak sells. I like the 200T, but I would like it to be accompanied by a lower ASA stock for a cleaner look as well.

Ben Crowe is quoted as saying that people thought his Kodachrome film (which was one of 9 finalists out of 2000 entries at Cannes in the short film category) was shot in 16mm, can the same be said about 200T, a very nice looking stock but....
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#11 steve hyde

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:18 PM

...yes the same thing is said about the color negative stocks. It can and does look sixteenish when care is taken to fatten the negative and when care is taken to make a good transfer and care is taken to compress the 4:2:2 betacam to DVD.

Kodak 50D would be a very useful addition to the already available negatives. I have never shot this stock -just the 7212, which is a T film. If it were available at Kodak student discount prices, I'm sure I would shoot loads of 50D on S8.

Steve

Edited by steve hyde, 06 February 2006 - 01:21 PM.

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#12 Chris Graham

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:12 PM

so when does Kodak's 50D come out? is Pro8mm the only stateside source atm for their own line?
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#13 Mike Crane

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:02 PM

I heard a rumor that Kodak is giving the 50D V2 serious consideration for release in super 8. I wonder if the "custom order" of 50D mentioned above is from Kodak? If this is true, Kodak may actually release the film soon.

Edited by Mike Crane, 07 February 2006 - 12:08 PM.

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#14 Chris Graham

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:46 PM

I heard a rumor that Kodak is giving the 50D V2 serious consideration for release in super 8. I wonder if the "custom order" of 50D mentioned above is from Kodak? If this is true, Kodak may actually release the film soon.


hopefully

i say a petition, pre-order fundraiser. those serious have to purchase at least 4 rolls! we mean business :angry:

it's all about the money and serious S8 shooters at all costs you cheap bastards!
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#15 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:20 PM

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. have a S8 music video scheduled for April or May... 50D would be the perfect daylight stock to cut with the 17 and 18.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:40 PM

hopefully

i say a petition, pre-order fundraiser. those serious have to purchase at least 4 rolls! we mean business :angry:

it's all about the money and serious S8 shooters at all costs you cheap bastards!


I would gladly pre-purchase, from Kodak, 50 cartridges of a 50 ASA negative stock. Unless there is an issue we are unaware of that the Vision II stocks are almost as good as the 50 ASA negative stock which is not a Vision II stock??? Could that be the issue?

Is a Vision II low ASA stock coming out down the road as well?
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#17 steve hyde

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:59 PM

...good point on Vision 2 because if you shoot by the unofficial one stop over rule for Vision 2, 7217 with an 85 on the lens should be rated at EI 50

Steve
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#18 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 04:07 PM

Is a Vision II low ASA stock coming out down the road as well?

The 7201 50D is a vision2 stock. It's finer grain than the 7245 EXR50D. It's also a lot less grainy than 7217 is capable of being. And based on what I've seen in the 17, the 7201 could be phenomenal in S8... where the improvements would be most obvious... especially rated at 25ASA.

Edited by Skratch, 07 February 2006 - 04:11 PM.

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#19 Matt Pacini

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 04:09 PM

All very interesting, I suppose, but can we stop starting threads that include the phrase: "I heard a rumor..."

I'm not interested, unless Kodak actually announces something.
Until then this is all speculation.


MP
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#20 santo

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 05:35 PM

All very interesting, I suppose, but can we stop starting threads that include the phrase: "I heard a rumor..."

I'm not interested, unless Kodak actually announces something.
Until then this is all speculation.
MP


You're right.

And on a different note, here I give the most practical, most helpful advice anybody ever gets on a filmmaking board, and told I'm "not helpful". SO I WILL REPEAT THE BEST, MOST HELPFUL ADVICE ANYBODY EVER GOT ON A FILMMAKING WEBBOARD:

SHOOT SOME FILM IN THE STOCK YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT YOURSELF AND HAVE IT TELECINED PROFESSIONALLY, AND YOU WILL ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING YOU CAN USE AND REFER TO WHEN IT COMES TO FUTURE FILM PROJECTS YOU ARE CONSIDERING. IT IS WORTH EVERY PENNY. OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE NOTHING RELIABLE TO LOOK AT.
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