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Cross Processing?


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#1 Matt Cabinum

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:36 AM

I am planning on doing a project on 16mm in the near future in which I plan to use cross processing, and I was wondering if anyone knew how to light for it. I've heard stories about how cross processed shows have over lit and after it was processed the highlights went nuclear. Should I mute the highlights or is this just a myth. How much do my colors change? Any suggestions on stocks? I'm running on a very low budget here and can't quite afford to give 100 different stocks a run before I choose, so I would like to hear any feedback from those of you who've given different stocks a try. Any and all comments are welcome or even links. Thanks again!
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:00 AM

I am planning on doing a project on 16mm in the near future in which I plan to use cross processing, and I was wondering if anyone knew how to light for it. I've heard stories about how cross processed shows have over lit and after it was processed the highlights went nuclear. Should I mute the highlights or is this just a myth. How much do my colors change? Any suggestions on stocks? I'm running on a very low budget here and can't quite afford to give 100 different stocks a run before I choose, so I would like to hear any feedback from those of you who've given different stocks a try. Any and all comments are welcome or even links. Thanks again!


It would be hard to find 100 different color reversal stocks on the market to cross-process anyway. You're sort of stuck with one actually, 7285 (Ektachrome 100D). The process is unpredictable and high in contrast, so light MUCH flatter than seems natural and still expect the unexpected. Colors WILL shift, particularly towards the greenish. Yes, you tend to gain a little exposure so perhaps rate the stock at 160 ASA instead of 100 ASA, but then compensate by really filling in the shadows.
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#3 Nico Hardy

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:07 PM

Unless you test some basics as the kind of light, location, and wardrobe to be used, you'll have no idea what will be on film.
I strongly suggest to take a 35mm still camera, load ektachrome E100 and process it C-41 just to get a flavor of things to come.
My experience is that if you want high contrast / saturation, go for normal or -1/2 rating and normal cross-process or to lessen the effect to shoot +2/3 (64 asa) and then under process by -1 or -1 1/2.
For extreme contrast / saturation shoot -1 and push process at least +1

Ultra contrast filters have been very good to control contrast also, #1 to #5 depending.

The high lights are not the real problem, but the deepness of the shadows is what needs to be controlled.

Hope it helps,
Nico Hardy
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#4 Joshua Reis

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 06:42 PM

Hi, ran a couple of cross processing tests last month with 7285. I have a quictime posted at the following link.

http://joshuareis.co...Large-23.98.mov
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#5 Kip Kubin

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:07 PM

I strongly suggest to take a 35mm still camera, load ektachrome E100 and process it C-41 just to get a flavor of things to come.

Hope it helps,
Nico Hardy



I followed your advice and shot a roll of E100 and had it cross processed.

I have a few questions.

Is E100 G the same stock as 7285? I'm trying to see what the differences will be between the two once I film and cross process.


I'm trying to get a more gold/amber tone out of the film and for not it's mostly green...even though most websites state that Kodak reversal does not skew to one color or another like Fuji. I shot 1 stop over and under with the same results.

I'm trying to achieve the Cowboys vs Aliens/Domino

Or this clip on Vimeo (Which I love the look of the DP really nailed exposure and I'm sure that helped with skin tone CC if there was any)





Here's another question...can anyone guess what stock was used or how the cross processing look was achieved




My test was flawed in that I shot it in a forest so that may be contributing to my overwhelming green hue.... I'll shoot some city shots tomorrow and wee what comes of it.


As for exposure Rating at 200 seems to be the key esp with light skin...will that also be the same in 7285..my guess is yes.

Thanks for any help or advice you can give

Kip
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:58 PM

NOo, as the late John Pytlak explained to me several years back,, it's identical to E100VS (stands for Vivid Saturated)


Friendly reminder that ECN-2 can also be cross-processed in E-6, if you add a scrubber to the front of the machine for remjet removal. IDK if this has ever been done. I seem to recall though, something from the mid '90s, although they might have gotten specially made long lengths of C-41 film instead. I want to say it was something on the ASC website from around '98, or maybe the camera guild.

Will see if I can find it. . .



C-41 and ECN-2 processes are very different, different times, different temperatures, and different color developing agents. IDK how E-6 reacts in one compared to the other, but I want to say C-41 is more active, and really effects color balances totally differently, as well as contrast.



You can probably get a motion picture lab that runs 35mm (even better the same lab that you'd be using for your 7285) to run a still roll of the VS at the beginning of the day or the end of a run and then you'll know exactly what it will look like.




Personally, I'd go for STANDARD ECN-2 process times (3 minutes at 106 Fahr., not that anyone cares ;-) ) at least as a start point, certainly makes sense from an ECONOMIC perspective. In 35 I just saw the other day, you're looking at $1300 for a 1,000' core, just rawstock.

So you're already spending, I'd assume also for 16 more than DOUBLE as what ECN would cost. Adding pushes and pulls (a lot of labs only do whole stop increments) will just further add to your cost.

If they're willing to do the tests for just a nominal fee, I suppose you could do several tests with exposure bracketing (or even one roll chopped up in five ~1-foot/30cm pieces) and pick the one you like the best.
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#7 Daniel Lee

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 06:26 AM

Damnit.. remove the damn start new topic button from the bottom when inside a thread. :/

K Borowski is on the money.

I want to say E-6 in ECN-2 gives better results than in C-41, but I do not know. But it's sure to give far more stable dyes when a stabilising bath is run due to it using the same colour developing agent.


E-6 will drop in contrast and saturation with a pull and colour shift... I've pulled Velvia 50 4 stops in E-6 FD, it had a long range but nothing could be done about the dull contrast and saturation, everything in that department was gone. I've pulled Velvia 100 4 stops in C-41, contrast and saturation easily restored to a high level just setting contrast.

Highlights don't clip processing E-6 as a neg, they can get dense and problematic however. Highlights clip in E-6 due to sodium thiocyanate which is there in first developer as a weak fixer to make sure there's nothing left to develop in highlights (clear the highlights) in the colour developer, and that shadows are not too dense as well. Without it you get black slides (even the highlights).

Here is a demonstration

Normal E-6
Posted Image

Normal Neg Developer
Posted Image

Hammered Neg Developer, processed so that highlights reach maximum density (takes a developing time of "forever").
Posted Image





If it were me I'd save the money, shoot Kodak 7201 50D, get a better digital transfer with the saved money and treat it in post.

Pulling E-6 will drop contrast and saturation and colour shift (the example of Velvia 50 didn't even have clear highlights, film though transparent at a level for normal scanning and correction). Cross-processing seems to maintain a level of saturation even with increased exposure and pulling so you can get a longer range, and mask areas or do whatever.

You would need testing to see how it would respond in ECN-2.
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#8 Daniel Lee

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 06:35 AM

I followed your advice and shot a roll of E100 and had it cross processed.

I have a few questions.

Is E100 G the same stock as 7285? I'm trying to see what the differences will be between the two once I film and cross process.


I'm trying to get a more gold/amber tone out of the film and for not it's mostly green...even though most websites state that Kodak reversal does not skew to one color or another like Fuji. I shot 1 stop over and under with the same results.

I'm trying to achieve the Cowboys vs Aliens/Domino

Or this clip on Vimeo (Which I love the look of the DP really nailed exposure and I'm sure that helped with skin tone CC if there was any)





Here's another question...can anyone guess what stock was used or how the cross processing look was achieved




My test was flawed in that I shot it in a forest so that may be contributing to my overwhelming green hue.... I'll shoot some city shots tomorrow and wee what comes of it.


As for exposure Rating at 200 seems to be the key esp with light skin...will that also be the same in 7285..my guess is yes.

Thanks for any help or advice you can give

Kip




The best way to colour correct cross-processed slides is to have them scanned/digitised as if they received normal E-6 processing (with the range set to make sure it captures the entire density range if it does end up a bit dense). Then in post straight invert it, then colour correct/balance.

The image from your link is also green, given that it corrects fine (below), there's no reason you can't achieve the look in post. As any 'look' achieved from a neg.. well ultimately it's from the colour treatment/balance/correction/etc, as it's not a positive any longer etc.

Posted Image

Edited by Daniel Lee, 03 September 2011 - 06:38 AM.

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