Jump to content


Photo

Strange Phenomon - Beaulieu 4008


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:08 PM

I recently had my Beaulieu serviced and shot a test roll with it.

When I finally got it back and viewed it we discovered a strange streak of light leading from the perf side and into the picture area on the FOURTH frame of almost every shot.

I have never noticed this before with this camera on previous footage and was wondering if it was a fault or a diliberate marker - like a flash frame.

Anyway any thoughts appreciated,

Andy

(p.s. the pictures look pretty grubby cos they've only been scanned in a home flatbed scanner)

another example

Attached Images

  • Frame2.gif
  • Frame1.jpg

  • 0

#2 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2420 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:10 PM

I don't know if the two are connected, but your gate is way over size. There shouldn't be image around the sprocket hole. Could this be allowing flare onto the film?
  • 0

#3 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:18 PM

I can't imagine it is flare - if it is it would be over a larger number of frames... not just the 4th of every new shot.
  • 0

#4 Erdwolf_TVL

Erdwolf_TVL
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 104 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:21 PM

I recently had my Beaulieu serviced and shot a test roll with it.

When I finally got it back and viewed it we discovered a strange streak of light leading from the perf side and into the picture area on the FOURTH frame of almost every shot.

I have never noticed this before with this camera on previous footage and was wondering if it was a fault or a diliberate marker - like a flash frame.

Anyway any thoughts appreciated,

Andy

(p.s. the pictures look pretty grubby cos they've only been scanned in a home flatbed scanner)

another example


Does the problem change when using a lower film speed? IE, 12 FPS or even slower?

Edited by Erdwolf_TVL, 07 February 2006 - 01:22 PM.

  • 0

#5 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:57 PM

Does the problem change when using a lower film speed? IE, 12 FPS or even slower?



thats a good question unfortunatly I only shot that test cartridge at 24fps for lens and steady tests, and then later used the cartidge up on some interiors and exteriors.

The mark is absent on some darker interior shots (where i was shooting a subject in silhotte, so shooting towards the light) but present on all others which leads me to suspect that light is leaking in from the viewfinder. - If this was the case why always the 4th frame? - as it never differs.
  • 0

#6 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2420 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:11 PM

The rebate is fogged as well which probably rules out the finder. That would only affect the gate. 4 frames is about half the length of the pressure plate, so it's happening at one end of it or the other. Very odd. Sorry, no help.
  • 0

#7 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:38 PM

alas could be an unsolved mystery!
  • 0

#8 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 07 February 2006 - 04:21 PM

I recently had my Beaulieu serviced and shot a test roll with it.

When I finally got it back and viewed it we discovered a strange streak of light leading from the perf side and into the picture area on the FOURTH frame of almost every shot.

I have never noticed this before with this camera on previous footage and was wondering if it was a fault or a diliberate marker - like a flash frame.

Anyway any thoughts appreciated,


I used to get something similar with a 16mm spring wound Beaulieu. That one was diagonal and protruded
further into the frame at the beginning of the shot. Once when my brother was shooting time lapse without
covering the viewfinder, it went thru the entire shot.
So yes, it comes from the viewfinder system. I think it's caused by the mirror and shutter coming up to speed together at a slightly different startup speed for each.
I've never compared it with other Beaulieus, but suspect it's a normal, but not usually noticed, Beaulieu artifact.

---LV
  • 0

#9 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 07 February 2006 - 05:19 PM

When I finally got it back and viewed it we discovered a strange streak of light leading from the perf side and into the picture area on the FOURTH frame of almost every shot.


This means the light leak is happening when the film is parked, and the film is being lightstruck 4 frames above (before) the gate.

-Sam
  • 0

#10 Justin Lovell

Justin Lovell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 262 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Toronto

Posted 07 February 2006 - 07:24 PM

FYI:

most all footage i've seen from the beaulieu 4008 has the image area coming over the sprocket hole slightly in a curved shape.
  • 0

#11 James Grahame

James Grahame
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Sound Department
  • Canada

Posted 11 February 2006 - 05:50 PM

I don't know if the two are connected, but your gate is way over size. There shouldn't be image around the sprocket hole. Could this be allowing flare onto the film?

This is normal for a 4008 - my footage looks almost the same without any light leaks or anomalies -- expect an image that runs about half-way into the sprocket hole and vignettes.
  • 0

#12 sparky

sparky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

Many super8 cameras have gate cutouts into the sprocket holes- I've no idea why, but yes that is normal.
The beaulieus gate is unusual in that it is attached to a plate behind the cart chamber- a pressed steel "bathtub" construction that can be removed from the mechanical back plate without removing the gate. I noticed when repairing a 2008 that there was a hard black resinous (or waxy?) filler applied around the gate block to seal the gap between it and the cart chamber. I guess that someone has had your camera apart and not sealed that gap again which is leading to the light leak you are seeing. I'd suggest pressing a thin sausage of black-tac into that gap, but be careful not to press it in too far as the claw mechanism oscilates up and down just behind that wall! Actually thin strips of self adhesive foil would be a better bet. Even though you only really see it when the film stops and starts again, you'd be best to seal that leak as its potentially slightly fogging the film as it travels through and diminishing optimum results, perhaps..

Mark

Edited by sparky, 11 February 2006 - 06:32 PM.

  • 0

#13 sparky

sparky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:46 PM

Actually don't bother with the black-tac - I remember I tried it and it stuck to the cart!
Foil is probably the simplest way to go, and the original seal was all the way around the gate block so probably best to re-seal it all the way round. And maybe have a word with whoever sericed it for you.

Mark
  • 0

#14 oopee

oopee
  • Guests

Posted 12 February 2006 - 07:24 AM

In my 4008 it shows a weird shadow when the zoom is in wide and the focus is less than 5 feets. I haven´t tryed to test if it shows on film, but could this be over the tv safe line in area that is on the perf? Lens is angenieux 6-80.
  • 0

#15 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 12 February 2006 - 08:26 AM

In my 4008 it shows a weird shadow when the zoom is in wide and the focus is less than 5 feets. I haven´t tryed to test if it shows on film, but could this be over the tv safe line in area that is on the perf? Lens is angenieux 6-80.


I had that before my camera was serviced... there was a chip in the mirror shutter surface which was only visible in the viewfinder under certain conditions. Obviously it could never affect the filmed footage, but was a nusance at the least because it took light from the viewfinder. But in your case you will only know from some footage shot.


ALAS THE ANSWER!

There is a small gap at the top of the gate. The burns are from where the film has been parked there between shots, which I believe is coming from the viewfinder, due to the varying degrees of it. The leak is pottentially so weak that it takes many minutes to make it as clear as in the pictures.

The guy who surviced it suggests to use a black mastic/silicon and carefully fill the gap.
  • 0


Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Metropolis Post

CineLab

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

CineLab

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Visual Products