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Remounting old lenses in PL mount


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#1 Robert Hughes

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:44 PM

I'm considering getting a CP-16R modified for S16 and refitted with a PL mount. Problem is, I'd like to keep using my Angenieux 10-150mm zoom that's currently in CP mount. Can I get the Angenieux refitted with a PL mount also? Or should I just sell it and get a PL mount zoom?
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#2 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:03 PM

I'm considering getting a CP-16R modified for S16 and refitted with a PL mount. Problem is, I'd like to keep using my Angenieux 10-150mm zoom that's currently in CP mount. Can I get the Angenieux refitted with a PL mount also? Or should I just sell it and get a PL mount zoom?



The 10~150 will not cover Super16 and was known more for it's "breathing qualites then sharpness". I sold off the 10~150 which came with my camera package. In ten years I had never used it.

It can be done but a Zeiss/Cooke/Cannon or even the Fuji S16 lens would be a better choice.

A modern Angie would also be a good choice.

You might consider a Nikon Mount instead or Arri Bayo.

THe PL mount is a great mount but not a necessity for shooting S16. The PL mounts greatest utility is that it is a "cross camera/cross format" mount. One set of optics on many cameras. Be sure to get your camera painted a cool color!
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#3 Robert Hughes

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:08 PM

"One set of optics on many cameras. Be sure to get your camera painted a cool color!"

Which shades do the starlets prefer? Hot pink, macho black or arrest-me-red? In your professional op-onion?

Edited by Robert Hughes, 10 February 2006 - 04:09 PM.

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#4 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 05:04 PM

"One set of optics on many cameras. Be sure to get your camera painted a cool color!"

Which shades do the starlets prefer? Hot pink, macho black or arrest-me-red? In your professional op-onion?



There was a thread on this last week that got quite long. If the camera is apart and the case being machined for a PL, it is an opportune time to have the camera painted. I have been going with Arri grey because I have Arri cameras. But the camera painters can use any color and add flames if you would like.

Your spending $$$ for the PL and conversion why not go full boat only adds a couple of hundred $$.

I make a point of having nice tools properly arranged in matching cases, you set an attitude.

It makes an impression when a nicely painted and accessorized camera is mounted. Not much for the touch feelie stuff I see it as just good biness.

"Hey did you see Pete's new plumbing truck really nice layout" "Yep, he must be making some coin what is he doin we aren't?"

or more to the point:

"Well yes Mr Client, I acting as your Ad agency hired the Cinematographer and as you can see he and his crew have a first class act"

If hot pink is your preference I'd say go for it and you might consider a matching outfit with your name on the pocket! :D
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#5 John King

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 02:28 PM

Now that we're on the subject, WHAT exactly is a PL mount? I have read about it, and heard about it. I've figured out that it is a lense mount, but what kind exactly? Asparaco mentions that it is good for cross camera/ cross format. By this does he mean that the mount can accept a variety of other lens mount options (ie Arri bayonet, C-mount, ect.)? Last but not least, what do the initials 'PL' actually stand for?

all info GREATLY appreciated,

John Mark King
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:43 PM

Last but not least, what do the initials 'PL' actually stand for?

all info GREATLY appreciated,

John Mark King


Hi,

It's an Arri positive lock mount! It's the most popular lens mount in Europe. Other popular mounts are Panavision (PV) & BNCR for some older cameras.

Stephen
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#7 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:04 PM

Now that we're on the subject, WHAT exactly is a PL mount? I have read about it, and heard about it. I've figured out that it is a lense mount, but what kind exactly? Asparaco mentions that it is good for cross camera/ cross format. By this does he mean that the mount can accept a variety of other lens mount options (ie Arri bayonet, C-mount, ect.)? Last but not least, what do the initials 'PL' actually stand for?

all info GREATLY appreciated,

John Mark King



THe PL mount is used on 65mm? 35mm/16mm (Cross Format) and Arriflex, Aaton and just about any other camera make (Cross Camera)

And it is indeed a Positive Lock having no spring loaded components, Very Robust so you can hang long heavy zooms and telephotos with out the lens pulling down in the mount and slightly out of focus at the top of the frame.

Some folks make the mistake of buying one PL mount convertor for Arri or Aaton , locking it on the camera and not changing the mounts on their lenses. This results in disappointment and sadness
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#8 John King

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:36 PM

Hello!

Thanks to Stephen and Asparaco for the info and to Robert for opening up this particular discussion. Asparaco, could you please elabourate a little more on this statement? Thanks so much in advance!

JMK

Some folks make the mistake of buying one PL mount convertor for Arri or Aaton , locking it on the camera and not changing the mounts on their lenses. This results in disappointment and sadness


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#9 Ian Marks

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:04 PM

I too have a "butterfly" CP16R and am considering the Super-16 mod. If you're like me, one of the reasons you have a CP is that it's an inexpensive camera, and the modification to Super 16 is fairly reasonable. (BTW, I've spoken with Paul at Visual Products about the smearing issue and he seems to know how to deal with it - in any event if smearing were a huge problem you'd have everyone board chiming in to tell you about it.)

Anyway, the CP reflex mount is a good design - very study, like a smaller BNCR breechlock, and very close - some would say almost identical - to the Aaton mount. If you like your 10-150, which has the added benefit of being paid for, what would be the rationale behind changing the mount on it and the camera just to arrive back at the same level of functionality you started with? And paying a bundle to do it?

Most likely you're not looking at renting scads of expensive PL mount lenses (if so, the CP probably wouldn't have been your camera of choice), and your camera already has the ability to accept Arriflex bayonet, Arriflex standard, and Nikon lenses, via a fairly inexpensive adapter. In terms of your need to cover Super 16 you should be able to find whatever you need from the many available Arri mount lenses. If you're happy with your Angie, it probably covers from about 25mm upwards, and you can perhaps buy a 12.5mm Cooke - which covers Super 16 - for your wide angle needs. That's what I did.

By the way I have the Nikon lens adapter - which Paul Hillman apparently had a hand in designing - and it opens up all kinds of possibilities too. A little hard to find, but nice to have!
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 03:21 AM

Hello!

Thanks to Stephen and Asparaco for the info and to Robert for opening up this particular discussion. Asparaco, could you please elabourate a little more on this statement? Thanks so much in advance!

JMK


Hi,

I agree, adapters often are not accurate to 5 micron. The flange focal length can be off, leading to soft shots with wide angle lenses focused towards infinity.

Stephen
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#11 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 08:26 PM

Hello!

Thanks to Stephen and Asparaco for the info and to Robert for opening up this particular discussion. Asparaco, could you please elabourate a little more on this statement? Thanks so much in advance!

JMK

You have to mount the adapter on the lens then have it checked on a lens projector to determine correct backfocus. Then "shims" are added to bring the adapter and lens into spec. Once the lens and mount are within the manufactures spec the lens and adapter are locked together.

If you insert the PL mount adaptor into a PL mount camera and just mount and de-mount lenses your backfocus will be all over the place.

As the film and Xfers have gotten better the precisison of the entire optical/xfer process has gotten more critical.

Perfectly good optics are declared soft simply because they are not set up properly. The camera rental house do this as a matter of prep. The owner/op who does not expend the $$ for this service will not get best results

Especially bad for wide angle lenses shot wide open.

The whole optimum backfocus goes for non PL mount lens also. The typical Arri/Aaton mount lense also has to be set up.

HD has made this even more critical. The difference between a crisp xfer to HD and mush can be poor backfocus. It is obvious on HD
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#12 Craig Chartier

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 12:33 AM

I have seen these PL mods performed on older Eclair bodies. (by visual products ) I think the label says just above the mount. It seems th stick out from the body quite a bit. They also adapt the older lens by attaching a PL ring to the back of the lens and keeping it in place with a snap ring. However it seems that any other PL prime that I've ever put on one of these Moded bodies is very soft and cannot be focused correctly. Are they just using the PL mount to give the camera a better, safe, or more modern look. or is it really suppose to allow the use of newer faster cleaner lenses??






You have to mount the adapter on the lens then have it checked on a lens projector to determine correct backfocus. Then "shims" are added to bring the adapter and lens into spec. Once the lens and mount are within the manufactures spec the lens and adapter are locked together.

If you insert the PL mount adaptor into a PL mount camera and just mount and de-mount lenses your backfocus will be all over the place.

As the film and Xfers have gotten better the precisison of the entire optical/xfer process has gotten more critical.

Perfectly good optics are declared soft simply because they are not set up properly. The camera rental house do this as a matter of prep. The owner/op who does not expend the $$ for this service will not get best results

Especially bad for wide angle lenses shot wide open.

The whole optimum backfocus goes for non PL mount lens also. The typical Arri/Aaton mount lense also has to be set up.

HD has made this even more critical. The difference between a crisp xfer to HD and mush can be poor backfocus. It is obvious on HD


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#13 Mitch Gross

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:14 PM

It is supposed to allow one to use any PL mount lens--that's the whole point. By what you say, the depth of the mount is incorrectly set and it needs to be adjusted. This is something that any decent camera house should be able to do in a few minutes. Then the lenses are set to this correct mount and any properly set lens should work just fine.
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