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#1 Weldon

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:38 AM

I recently purchased a K-3 from e-bay and decided to get a test package of film from Bono Film to try it out. Now, I've done a fair amount of research on the camera and format but have no hands on experience. Here is what they sent me:
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Basically, I'm terrified to open the thing. I don't know whether the film inside is going to be on a daylight safe spool or a chunk of film that I have to spool myself in total darkness (as you can see from the instructions, 'load in total darkness').
In which case, the extent of my film experience includes manually loading 35mm still SLRs, and shooting with super 8 which comes in handy little cartridges. So you can see how it could be trouble for me to fumble around in the dark attempting something I've never done in plain light. Any advice?
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:58 AM

People practice loading in the light using "dummy rolls" of exposed "wasted" stock. Now I'm sure that what's in the box is a 16mm metal daylight spool, so you could load it in subdued light indoors (especially with Plus-X).
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#3 Peter Duggan

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 02:14 AM

What about the removal of the atake-up reel? I am also extremely new to celluloid, and I'm looking into buying a K3 soon. Is the take-up reel safe to be removed in daylight, or do I need a dark room for that?
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#4 Thomas Worth

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 02:21 AM

What about the removal of the atake-up reel? I am also extremely new to celluloid, and I'm looking into buying a K3 soon. Is the take-up reel safe to be removed in daylight, or do I need a dark room for that?

I used to own a Canon Scoopic, and I would always try to load and unload the film in a changing tent (e.g. put the entire camera in the tent). The problem I had was that the take-up spool wouldn't be tightly wound once I popped the cover, so the last few seconds of footage would be exposed to light and there was nothing I could do about it.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 02:21 AM

What about the removal of the atake-up reel? I am also extremely new to celluloid, and I'm looking into buying a K3 soon. Is the take-up reel safe to be removed in daylight, or do I need a dark room for that?


Again, you can remove a metal daylight spool take-up reel in subdued light (in the shade, inside, etc.) if the film stock is not too high-speed. Put it immediately back in the box and seal it up with tape, and label it. Expect to fog the heads and tails of the rolls a little.

Film on plastic cores has to be loaded and unloaded in complete darkness (darkroom or changing bag.)
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#6 Peter Duggan

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 02:23 AM

Thanks guys.
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#7 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 08:15 AM

Of course it doesn't do any harm unloading a daylight spool in complete darkness when possible, it wil save the last foot (maybe a bit less) from fogging and it isn't exactly hard.
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#8 Weldon

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:25 AM

What about the removal of the atake-up reel? I am also extremely new to celluloid, and I'm looking into buying a K3 soon. Is the take-up reel safe to be removed in daylight, or do I need a dark room for that?

Oh, this is another question I didn't think of. I appreciate the advice everybody.
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#9 Will Montgomery

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:46 AM

Practice in a room without windows like a bathroom. Be prepared for a few rolls not to be seated properly and they come back unwatchable. Once you get the loading down and know the sound of your camera it will be fine, just takes a little practice.

Removing the take-up reel is the easy part. Just throw your coat over the camera in your lap and have the plastic box under there too, remove the reel from the camera (easy since its not threaded anymore) and place into the black box while under the coat. Close the box and you're done. Not a bad idea to write on the back of the box what you shot on the film for reference, and other issues like speed or possible exposure problems.

Also keep in mind when shipping film its always good to use FedEx or DHL to avoid possible X-Ray issues with U.S. Mail. You can use 2nd day or ground probably and be fine.
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#10 Robert Glenn

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 06:13 PM

the 100 ft should have daylight spools on them I think. just put it in, feed about 2 feet out to thread through and on takeup reel. Run a little to make sure it is going through alright, and then close. I have a question.. the loops on my k3 jiggle like crazy. Is that ok? The pressure plate is supposed to straighten that out right? The movement seems to be good; Theres no deviation in the sprocket hole position as it leads out from behind the pressure plate during intermittant motion...
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#11 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 07:42 PM

Hi,

Loops jiggle, that's what they're for.

Personally I would load even daylight spools in a changing bag. Can't say I'm too sanguine about "It's OK in subdued light so long as the film is not too fast."

Phil
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 07:57 PM

Hi,

Loops jiggle, that's what they're for.

Personally I would load even daylight spools in a changing bag. Can't say I'm too sanguine about "It's OK in subdued light so long as the film is not too fast."

Phil


Well, sure it's safer to do everything in a changing bag, but people have been using these daylight spools for decades and loading in the light -- I used to shoot tons of stuff with an Arri-S and daylight spools and never had any fogging problems on 50D or 100T stock. I shot a mountain bike race years ago on that camera and had to reload the Arri-S outside in the daylight all the time, all day long. You just want to avoid hard sunlight raking into the spool, hence why working in the shade is smart, and being fast.

But of course, if you can do it in a changing bag, then you should. It's just that this person asking was not sure about how to load the thing in the first place -- and it would be easier to get experienced loading in light rather doing it all in the dark from the very beginning.

You make it sound like I'm being irresponsible telling him something that is fairly common knowledge regarding loading daylight spools, that it IS possible to load them in the light, hence the name "daylight spools".
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#13 Robert Glenn

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 09:26 PM

if somebody can load a k3 in a changing bag they are the man because i had a hard time loading it by sight.. i guess practice makes perfect
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#14 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:54 PM

I used to shoot tons of stuff with an Arri-S and daylight spools and never had any fogging problems on 50D or 100T stock. I shot a mountain bike race years ago on that camera and had to reload the Arri-S outside in the daylight all the time, all day long. You just want to avoid hard sunlight raking into the spool, hence why working in the shade is smart, and being fast. ......... and it would be easier to get experienced loading in light rather doing it all in the dark from the very beginning.

Kodak does mark the box, "Load in total darkness." Which is a frightening statment for someone who is doing this for the first time. The statement I beleive is based on the fact that the Black and white stock does not have the Black backing of the clour stock and so it is a little more sensitive to fogging. I would guess a simalar test your camera package (film and transfer) based on ECN 50D would be a bit more expensive.

If I was coaching someone with a new camera, I would say to use the bathroom at night with just one light, as Yes it is easier to do if you can see. I often will use a safelight, not because it is "safe", but because it is dim (15 Watt bulb) when loading from a spool if I want to check the load.

Worst case, even at the perverbial Kitchen Table I doubt if you will fog more than the first five - 10 feet even In normal daylight. (That is the worst I presonaly have gotten back, and even then you will probaly have the "white edeges to the pictures" effect. Since it is a test, just relax and go for it, and you can unspool the negative (carefully in case you want to use something you shot) when you get it back and see exactly how much fog you got.

Using the coat trick to pop out the film is probaly a good idea. If you close and tape the Kodak Box, you probaly don't _really_ need to put the paper band back around the spool. If you save the part of the label that tears off when you open it, you can use it to tape up the Box after you put the exposed film in it.

{side note} the package you have will likly have a spool in a plastic tray, their will be a paper band arround the spool, and the end of the film may be taped in place. When you get film from a short end place they often don't bother to use the band and the tray. You can look up the spec on the Kodak web site to see that a PXN455 does come on a spool. They even have a drawing of what the spool looks like.
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#15 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:20 PM

Hi,

Just to be clear - Mr. Mullen knows what he's talking about.

I'm a scaredy-cat.

However on my very first 16mm shoot we finished a take and I leaned away from the camera to hear the "Squeeeeak" of the mag door swinging open, followed by a mach-3 collision with the high speed camera assistant from hell. I am therefore perhaps more cautious than is entirely necessary.

(We got away with it)

Phil
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#16 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 01:53 PM

Personally, though, I find 100' daylight spools annoying just because of the constant reloading, not to mention the issue of fogging the heads and tails. And if shooting anything higher in speed, I'd definitely do it in a changing bag (which I hate as well... good thing I'm not an AC!)
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